Marvel Mods

 :phoenix: VS  :emmafrost:

even though i would like to say emma Jean would definantly own her she will crush her with her telekinesis or use the Phoenix Force and melt her

she sed jean grey, not phoenix though. if jeans on one of her pms pheonixy rage rampages then she could probably win, but emma would win otherwise. in my opinion.

Well Jean is Phoenix. They are the same being and the powers of the PHoenix are rightfully hers. And Jean is an omega-level mutant unlike Emma.

 :emmafrost: ya but emma can turn hersself into solid diamond.....?

In that case Jean could rip her apart tk. She managed to merge Emma's diamond form together she could break it together. Banshee's sonic scream did that in Necrosha. And she can tk restore Emma to human form. She already has shown that ability.

ya

BTW I found this. Back during Morrison's run there was an article pitting X-Men against X-Men. Morrison put Emma vs Jean and Jean won so this comes from an established X writer. You can't read the details but the winner: jean grey is easy to see.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.jean-grey.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/jeanvsemma-262x400.png&imgrefurl=http://www.jean-grey.com/jean-grey-vs-emma-frost.php&usg=__y9arQJVl_ExKBvakBTvMDkqh004=&h=400&w=262&sz=243&hl=en&start=13&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=UoyHNpMNkwPUtM:&tbnh=124&tbnw=81&prev=/images%3Fq%3Djean%2Bgrey%2Bvs%2Bemma%2Bfrost%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26rlz%3D1R2ADFA_enUS341%26tbs%3Disch:1

Quote from: MarvelFan12345 on June 22, 2010, 03:21PM
Well Jean is Phoenix. They are the same being and the powers of the PHoenix are rightfully hers. And Jean is an omega-level mutant unlike Emma.

The omega level thing is the most ridiculous thing in the whole marvel universe, because no one is fully aware of what exactly does that means. I'll quote a guy called Mr. Hellfire who has a blog where acording to him (and I agree with), being omega means that:

QuoteA. You're pretty near-immortal
B. Your powers can do about anything
C. You're so powerful that it makes it impossible to believe that any fights are a real struggle, nixing the man vs. man conflict and screwing up the story.

In that case, yes Jean is like the Mutant god or somehting like that and that's why writers keep her dead instead of using her, because it's so unintesresting to have an all powerfull character who basically can do anything, because no one know how to handle them, want an example? The Sentry.
I would like to see Jean comeback but with her flaws and as a normal being, not the overpowered phoenix, that in my opinion, only has ruined her.

Quote from: MarvelFan12345 on June 22, 2010, 03:38PM
BTW I found this. Back during Morrison's run there was an article pitting X-Men against X-Men. Morrison put Emma vs Jean and Jean won so this comes from an established X writer. You can't read the details but the winner: jean grey is easy to see.

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/580/99403317.png

You forgot to mention that acording to Grant Morrison both women are more or less on the same level:

"The two are almost equally matched and the fight goes back and forth for several minutes in this terrible battle of wills. Then Jean gets an extra boost of energy."

So without the Phoenix, Emma has chances to win.

Also, even if i don't like it at all, Emma has been recently cited as an Omega Class Telepath:

http://img97.imageshack.us/f/uncannyxmen518page5.jpg/
http://img709.imageshack.us/f/uncannyxmen518page6.jpg/

And also Marvel has stated that:

"She's one of the few people on Earth capable of taking Reynolds (The Sentry) down."

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/6145/siegestormingasgard008.jpg

And finally Emma has demonstrated the ability to overcome more powerful telepaths like Nate and Rachel Grey, both Omega level mutants, if you allow me to say it.
So, she has chances, like it or not.

But anyway, I don't care who would win, I still prefer Emma :P

QuoteIn that case, yes Jean is like the Mutant god or somehting like that and that's why writers keep her dead instead of using her, because it's so unintesresting to have an all powerfull character who basically can do anything, because no one know how to handle them, want an example? The Sentry.

and that's why superman is a terribly boring character. and why every single street hood has a wealthy supply of kryptoinite XD. even docter doom has used kryptonite in the past. i'm surprised he's still around really.

I also did not completely enjoy Jean becoming so powerful that she is a balance of the universe. However if Thor can be in the Avengers, Jean can be in the X-Men can't she.

And the Phoenix powers are counted because she is Phoenix. There is no Jean without the Phoenix and no Phoenix without Jean. The powers are rightfully hers. However if this fight means Jean before becoming the Phoenix she would still likely win.

Her tk was powerful enough to protect her from the Sun in the 90s so she could easily use it against Emma. Even before becoming Phoenix she could use these powers to stop her diamond form. Also in What If? Astonishing X-Men, Jean is alive again but without the Phoenix. Emma has pieces of the Phoenix and Jean still beats her. It is in this issue that she restores Emma to human form.

In terms of telepathy I see Emma to be very powerful. She was said to be around levels of Xavier, Jean, Psylocke, and Rachel. But didn't Emma herself say many times in comics that she isn't as powerful as Xavier or Jean. Her skill is equal but not by power.

I can see Emma being a big threat but at the end she would fall. She may defeat the Sentry or have a chance against him but she doesn't against one who has the same tp power but in stronger levels.

The phoenix choose jean...so why cant it choose another person?

Quote from: Jordan on June 22, 2010, 04:07PM
The phoenix choose jean...so why cant it choose another person?

MarvelFan will say that Jean= Phoenix and Phoenix=Jean, it's not a choice, and thanks to the big potato for that, as I posted before the Phoenix ruined Jean, so it will stay with her and do not ruin anyone else ^^

ya phoenix choose jean

I would say that because it is true although I don't completely like it. It has its good sides but more downsides. I prefered Jean in the 90s where the Phoenix baggage was all behind her and Rachel's problem then. Jean was still very powerful but wouldn't tip the scales of a battle to complete win for her side.

Well if it's just regular jean and not phoenix Emma would own Emma is more skilled with her telepathy than Jean

ya emma is better than jean for sure

Quote from: Jordan on June 22, 2010, 04:07PM
The phoenix choose jean...so why cant it choose another person?

i think the Phoenix choose jean because she is a telepath and has telekinesis which makes her even deadlier.And plus the phoenix feels ''sensations'' that she's never felt before which is why she continues to bond with Jean Grey

i wnoder why they never put emma in any of the x-men movies

Emma wasn't in X-Men 1 cause she wasn't even an X-Man yet. In X-Men 2 she was just an X-Man and very unknown. In X3 the director was gonna make her an empathic villain but he left the movie and she was scrapped out. She is in Wolverine though. There was a rumor that she was gonna be in First Class but it turns out that the actress will play Moira MacTaggert.

Also Jeanfan Emma is not more skilled than Jean. They are both equally skilled in their telepathy with or without the Phoenix. Xavier has trained Jean and then she has trained herself particularly in X-Men Revolution. Jean is more of a powerful telepath than Emma though. So I suppose you could say equal in skill but Jean is the more powerful telepath. And they both count in the end so who do you think has the better odds?

To answer your question Jeanfan the Phoenix didn't chose Jean for her powers. It originally made a deal with Jean to save her friends but in return the Phoenix would feel humanity as Jean. But Jean's humanity was so strong that the Phoenix thought itself to become Jean. After Jean's humanity got the Phoenix to commit suicide it wanted to make amends to Jean but ended up splitting between Maddie and Rachel. It came back to Jean so it could stop something from destroying the world. Eventually the Phoenix and Jean merged together because this was their ultimate destiny, to become one. Then Jean (now Phoenix) saved the world from Sublime and has not been active since (unless you count Endsong). BTW Jeanfan those sensations the Phoenix felt was humanity.

wait they r making another x-men movie?

yeah X-men first class there making a lt of marvel movies now including Avengers,X-men First Class,Thor and Captian America

any idea when its comeing out?

ok, I'll exclude the phoenix force altogether cause it's one of the most powerful entities in the marvel universe and could single handedly destroy all the mutants in the world with but a thought. against the phoenix emma is as powerful as aunt may.

jean, only with her mutant powers. think of jean from right b4 the grant morrison arc when the phoenix was in a distant past. ok, if it was a telepathic fight say in the astral plane than I'd have to give it to emma. yeah, jean may be even more powerful than emma, but emma definitely not far behind and is far smarter, strategic and, more importantly, ruthless. while jean shows a lot of restrain, emma is not insecure or afraid of her powers and would use them to their full extent. it would not be an easy fight, of that I'm sure, but I think emma has a 60% chance of winning.

if it's a fight with all powers than I'd have to say jean would easily defeat emma. why? simple, cause she can protect her mind for the few tenths of a second she'd need to use her tk on emma. emma would be knocked out quickly if she doesn't immediately turns to diamond. in diamond form she has no access to her tp nor can be attacked by tp. so, jean would just have to use her powerful tk to dispatch emma. she may be invulnerable, but not that much. if storm can break emma's diamons form with a hurricane, jean can probably do that with her tk. even if she doesn't, emma is absolutely powerless, cause she wouldn't even be able to get close to jean in order to punch her or something.

Quote from: Jordan on June 22, 2010, 07:01PM
any idea when its comeing out?

like i think 2011 check the Marvel Movie News topic

Alright thanks

@Nowhere Man.  Most of the time I love your opinions because they are neutral ^^
I agree with you, Jean maybe trained by Xavier, but Emma learned by the best school: life itself. And as you pointed Emma has on her side the fact that she doesn't have any regret by using her powers, so yeah in TP i always thought that Emma, while not more powerfull than Jean, has better skills in combat.
I also agree that Jean's tk would be her victory factor, for all the reasons that you posted about Emma's diamond form and that she cannot access to her far more deadly Telepathy.

Quote from: Nowhere Man on June 22, 2010, 07:02PM
yeah, jean may be even more powerful than emma, but emma definitely not far behind and is far smarter, strategic and, more importantly, ruthless. while jean shows a lot of restrain, emma is not insecure or afraid of her powers and would use them to their full extent.

I could not said it better ^^
That's why I gave her an oportunity to win, maybe not 50-50 but at least a 60-40 sounds reasonable to me :)

if only Emma could use her powers in Diamond Form she'll be invulnerable then there probably be no way Jean can beat Emma

Quote from: Jeanfan321 on June 22, 2010, 07:54PM
if only Emma could use her powers in Diamond Form she'll be invulnerable then there probably be no way Jean can beat Emma

But that's why many people, like me, prefer Emma over Jean, Emma has flaws, and can be beaten and have her ass kicked by others (damn Storm :P)
Jean is cool, but being overpowered just ruin her, and if you add the Phoenix, well that's even worse.

plus let's not forget she's a beautiful hot sexy b*itch and you never no if she really likes you or simply uses you as a doll you can never trust her fully and She's independent she comes and goes to the X-men when she feels like it if not she doesn't :P

yay! Storm for president! only Vulcan, Nate, Magneto or a phoenix empowered Jean can defeat her among the x-men.

Quote from: Nowhere Man on June 22, 2010, 08:32PM
yay! Storm for president! only Vulcan, Nate, Magneto or a phoenix empowered Jean can defeat her among the x-men.

-_-'

Do you honestly think that we're going to believe that???
That would mean that Storm is overpowered, and look above your post and you will see what we think about overpowered characters :P

she's not overpowered, she's just powerful. be honest, can you think of any other x-man that would defeat her in battle? I'm not being partial, she does have weaknesses. and I'm not talking just about lvl of power but the kind of power each of them have.

take miss marvel for example. do I like her more than I like storm? OF COURSE NOT! is she more powerful than storm? I don't think so considering storm can bring forth another ice age and destroy entire armies within second using hurricanes and tornados. Can Miss Marvel defeat Storm? FOR SURE! She can fly at mach8 speeds, can absorb energy (so lightning bolts are useless) and is invulnerable enough to resist winds and temperature extremes for the few seconds she needs to get to storm at supersonic speed and knock her out with a single blow.

on the other hand, emma, who can be and was defeated by storm, could easily defeat Miss Marvel, cause she has no true defense against telepaths, specially one as powerful as emma.

see what I mean? I'm being neutral all the way ^^

storm can beat magneto not with lightning but wind,tornadoes,ice,hail, etc

You are right about Emma's nonchalantness about hurting others. I would still give it to Jean though (my fanboyism lol). In Morrison's run when both telepaths had to save Xavier Emma quickly got crippled while Jean managed to go all the way to the end. Plus Fraction himself (the man who either hates Jean or her love with Scott) wrote in one of his stories that Jean is the most powerful telepath. And I wouldn't say Jean isn't afraid to hurt. Considering this is Emma Frost the woman who has done much to Jean I could say that Jean wouldn't be that restraining. She much like Xavier has been known to use her full ferocity when needed. Examples include Uncanny X-Men 298, 300, and even the duel with Emma in New X-Men. Although she may have held back it was not because she was afraid then to hurt her.

However Emma Frost is pretty cool in the way that she can be defeated. Also when did Storm defeat her?

BTW how did you guys feel on the original X3 storyline where Emma would be an empath (not a telepath) and a villain? In that story she would have controlled Jean and made her Dark Phoenix. At the end Jean would overcome her evil because of her love for the X-Men and release her rage on Emma. That Emma would certainly have been better than the one in Wolverine. That Emma needs to be retconned. Plus Jean, Xavier, and Cyke would have lived in that story (from what I believe) and there would be no reason to have to resurrect them in X4 as the writers will surely do if they make X4.

yeah but they never really showed if Cyclops died are not. Xavier and his mind are safe and souns in a body of another person who didn't have a brain. and like i think Emma is becoming very popular character theres no other character like her and killing her off would not be good unless she played a big role in the film then died

At the time she was just getting popular so it wouldn't have been that big to kill her off as the others who died in the X3 that came out. For all three characters who "died" in X4 it would be real easy to bring them back. Scott needs more screen time, enough with Jean and Logan, she is Scott's woman. Logan needs to back off (although they did have hot chemistry in the movies). Considering how Jean said Scott was her fiancee I wonder why they haven't been married yet. That would be cool to see in a movie.

Maybe Sinister and Apocalypse as villains. Wanda, Pietro, Lorna, and Havok need to be in the movies as well. Sabretooth could come back because of his healing factor.

Anyway that was actually all off-topic, sorry about that.

yeah, I agree that in power lvl she's not far behind magneto. but he's a lot more experienced and has better defenses against storm's powers than she has of his. I'd say it's a 25-75% advantage for Magneto.

@ MF: in morrison's run Jean had some use of phoenix powers so, that's an unfair comparison IMO.

Quote from: MarvelFan12345 on June 22, 2010, 09:11PM
However Emma Frost is pretty cool in the way that she can be defeated. Also when did Storm defeat her?

X-Treme X-Men/New X-Men Crossover
(http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/33603/874883-stormvsemma5kc.jpg)
(http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/33603/874881-stormvsemma5kc__1_.jpg)
(http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/26874/1169104-storm53.jpg)

Cool. Emma really deserved that after all she has done to Storm.

Also I suppose you are right about Jean's powers in Morrison although I'm still sticking to that. I'm wondering if that issue happened before the issue with her against the U-Men. That's the first time the Phoenix manifested itself within her. However didn't she only manifest the raptor and be shown to be hosting the Phoenix. Didn't the actual powers come from when Wolverine stabbed her?

DAMN never new Storm could be so evil and arent they friends i wonder why Emma did that to her and why storm was like diamonds can be cut or even shattered

This was when Emma was new to the X-Men and many people were hostile to her. I still remember Bishop's quote about Emma when she was shattered, lol. They were never friends although Storm has learned to accept Emma now. You see in the past Emma tortured Storm and switched bodies with her. Probably not a good way to start a friendship.

damn even though i know emma can be a b*tch she must have REALLY ticked off storm for storm to threaten and strike her down with lightning and Storm was about to kill her

As I said Emma tortured Storm once promising to leave Storm as a lifeless body. Not long after she switched bodies with Storm and walked around in Storm's body with the White Queen clothing. You can imagine Storm not having too many fond memories of her after that.

BTW what issue is that. I would love to read it.

Haha, loved that scene even if Storm treated Emma like trash. The best thing of this is that Emma not only is now more accepted on the X-men, she's also having great moments with them and even Storm who were the most reluctant to accept her, now is starting to become a good friends with Emma.
So despite all her flaws, the White Queen stands over. Scott loves her, the X-men has accepted her as one of them and the mainstream marvel universe is starting to adopt her as one of their most importat figures as the co-leader of the X-Men ^^
I'm so happy now :)

The only thing I wish she didn't lose was her personality.

issue: X-Treme X-Men #22

Cool, thanks

Quote from: MarvelFan12345 on June 22, 2010, 10:00PM
The only thing I wish she didn't lose was her personality.

She won't, even if she's a little bit soft now, a bitch will always be a bitch  ^^

Quote from: whiteking on June 22, 2010, 10:12PM
She won't, even if she's a little bit soft now, a bitch will always be a bitch  ^^

Lol, tell that to Matt Fraction. He's really softened her. I enjoyed her being a little soft but not losing her complete personality.

Quote from: MarvelFan12345 on June 22, 2010, 10:13PM
Lol, tell that to Matt Fraction. He's really softened her. I enjoyed her being a little soft but not losing her complete personality.

In my reality, Fraction along Greg Land and many others, doesn't even exist. I can't see his supposed love for Emma.
Please bring back Morrison and Whedon to the X-men, or promote Warren Ellis, he's doing a great job on Astonishing, especially on Emma and Storm.

ok insult me if im wrong but i think it depends. Jean is a good telepath, emma is a great telepath but i think the question isn't who would win in a battle but who will take the first hard hit first! lol
emma can kill jean with her telepathy if she's quick to do it first
and jean can tear her molecules to pieces if she's quick enough to do it first.
id say draw lol

Quoteok insult me if im wrong but i think it depends. Jean is a good telepath, emma is a great telepath but i think the question isn't who would win in a battle but who will take the first hard hit first! lol
emma can kill jean with her telepathy if she's quick to do it first
and jean can tear her molecules to pieces if she's quick enough to do it first.
id say draw lol

at the beginning maybe but
look in phoenix endsong jean beat phoenix because as jean grey said she is phoenix
she can win emma even when she is not possessed by the phoenix force

In What if Astonishing X-Men a Phoenixless Jean managed to defeat Emma who had several pieces of the Phoenix Force. So Jean at normal power levels and Emma with Phoenix.

ok say it was a phoeinx less jean grey....jean grey had no phoenix in her.....who would win emma or jean?

jean

Jean before her final transformation. I still say Jean. She managed to win against a Phoenix Emma in What If and in Endsong (but she techincally was Phoenix then so I guess that doesn't count).

well i like emma but i would have to say jean

Have Jean and Emma ever fought each other besides in New X-Men, Endsong, What If?, and the Dark Phoenix Saga?

i ddont think they have

I didn't think so either. I wonder if they ever had contact in the 90s after Emma joined Gen X.

Jean is branded as an omega level mutant, right? and that is with or without the phoenix?

without

Defintally without. She doesn't need the Phoenix to be powerful.

QuoteDefintally without. She doesn't need the Phoenix to be powerful.

totally agree with MarvelFan even without she is very strong

if that's the case, based on facts alone, then maybe jean will win. i mean how does one kill an omega level mutant anyway like seriously lol both women are aweomse nontheless

Quote from: MarvelFan12345 on June 22, 2010, 09:11PM

BTW how did you guys feel on the original X3 storyline where Emma would be an empath (not a telepath) and a villain? In that story she would have controlled Jean and made her Dark Phoenix. At the end Jean would overcome her evil because of her love for the X-Men and release her rage on Emma. That Emma would certainly have been better than the one in Wolverine. That Emma needs to be retconned. Plus Jean, Xavier, and Cyke would have lived in that story (from what I believe) and there would be no reason to have to resurrect them in X4 as the writers will surely do if they make X4.

where can I find the expanded original X3 storyline?
all I know is just Emma being the villain who controls Jean's powers and that's all
it would be much more interesting if Bryan Singer didnt leave X-Men to direct Superman,
in X2 we can see they showed us some fiery phoenix effects on Jean (even the phoenix raptor at the end of the movie) but they just disappeared in Brett Ratner's X3 in favor of the horrible dark skin effect which makes her look like a mad old witch
what really bothers most people I believe was Singer's decision to cast Sigourney Weaver as Emma,but it's good that it didn't happen
she should have been played by a hot seductive blonde actress, not an aged Ellen Ripley.

Well in the actual Dark Phoenix Saga Cyke and Jean were in their 20s and Emma was a 40 year old woman. Maybe that influenced him.

Quote from: MarvelFan12345 on June 24, 2010, 07:43AM
Well in the actual Dark Phoenix Saga Cyke and Jean were in their 20s and Emma was a 40 year old woman. Maybe that influenced him.

40?? Lol you must be joking, or maybe you must be talking about the X3 plot.
I already explained to you the age of Emma and she's younger than both Cyclops and Jean.

yes, emma back than was supposed to be older than scott and jean, but since her age was never stated they have rejuvenated her later on and now she's supposed to be 29 when scott is supposed to be 31 and jean 29 as well though a few months older than emma. and 40 is waaay too much. she was older, but not 40.

also, originally emma's appearance is based on faye dunaway, did you know that?
(http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/4226/174469-100883-emma-frost.jpg)
(http://texashideout.tripod.com/realfaye.jpg)

see the resemblance? I do

Dear, I'm an Emma Frost fan, Of course I knew that ;)

love your new default avatar whiteking^^

In the 80s she was introduced as 40 or at least older than everyone else. Morrison retconned her age to 27. As she has had plastic surgery done on her and being a telepath she could easily appear younger than she really looks.

i thought she got plastic surgery for breast implants?

Quote from: MarvelFan12345 on June 24, 2010, 04:43PM
In the 80s she was introduced as 40 or at least older than everyone else. Morrison retconned her age to 27. As she has had plastic surgery done on her and being a telepath she could easily appear younger than she really looks.

I was waiting that you say that ^^

http://img519.imageshack.us/f/mhandbook08deluxe27massrx3.jpg/

Emma is described as a young and brilliant woman. She was headmistress of the Hellions.

http://img261.imageshack.us/f/offhandbookmarveldeluxedi8.jpg/

"Despite her youth..."

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/8702/emmafrost006pg07sb3.jpg

Emma Frost solo series, an official source for info about her, accepted by Marvel as part of her big retcon.
In that picture we have a cameo of the Fantastic 5 original X-men. As we know Xavier recruited then when they were teenagers, Hank being the oldest and Bobby the young one.
Emma Frost was 15 when she left home. Emma would be 15 or less in this scan. She sees Xavier's mutants on T.V for the first time. This would actually make her younger than the Original 4 (Beast, Jean, Cyclops and Angel) and much closer to Iceman's age.

http://img101.imageshack.us/f/newxmen13809el9.jpg/

27 was the age that morrison gave to her during his New X men run.

Deadly Genesis #5
http://img174.imageshack.us/f/xmendeadlygenesis5of6p2fx9.jpg/
http://img100.imageshack.us/f/xmendeadlygenesis5of6p3ml7.jpg/

Do you really think that she's on Xavier's age??

Generation X #34
http://img149.imageshack.us/i/genx34textnv6.jpg/

"As for Emma's age, you can safely put her between 25 and 30"

Generation X #-1, her first meet at the Hellfire CLub. 16 years old.
http://img168.imageshack.us/f/generationx0104dd4.jpg/

"Her name is Emma Frost, sweet sixteen and never been kissed."

As you can see, official stuff state that she was young when she joined the Hellfire CLub and become the White Queen, so it's true that she was more or less on the same age of Jean and Scott or younger than both.
Morrison was right after all, she was 27 then and she must be 28/29 now.
Based on what you posted and compared with the scans I posted, if Emma was 40 then, Jean should had 41 :P

Lol. What I was trying to say that when she first appeared she was supposed to be an old woman. Later they decided to make her younger. So 27 is her canon/official age. At least in Morrison's run.

yes
in the beginning as her age was never stated they just have rejuvenated her later for the story  :)
otherwise do you immagine cyclops and emma relationship ..... :eek:

Quote from: mj fan on June 25, 2010, 12:36AM
yes
in the beginning as her age was never stated they just have rejuvenated her later for the story  :)
otherwise do you immagine cyclops and emma relationship ..... :eek:

I know Scott as 30 and Emma by now could be 50.

Quote from: Jeanfan321 on June 24, 2010, 05:23PM
i thought she got plastic surgery for breast implants?

XD, if the X-woman dont watch out Emma is going to give em all breast implants XD

Thats kinda scary still 30 and 50 ...... Wow, i honestly just remember the normal emma (the one Whiteking has in his avatar) That way Emma wil never age for me :)

She would be around 50 if they never retconned her age.

Quote from: MarvelFan12345 on June 25, 2010, 09:46AM
She would be around 50 if they never retconned her age.

Haha and you keep saying that, did you read all the scans that I posted???, most of them were before Morrison's run and she was described as a young and brilliant woman, 20-25 at her time in the hellfire club and generation x. Her age was never retconed, face it :P

You are right, but back in the 80s, before the 2000s she was meant to be way older. But you are right about the fact that other writers before Morrison made her younger. Morrison is just credited for giving the official age. But I mean if we went with her age before the 2000s and even maybe the 90s. Her age from the original appearance.

Quote from: MarvelFan12345 on June 25, 2010, 03:23PM
You are right, but back in the 80s, before the 2000s she was meant to be way older. But you are right about the fact that other writers before Morrison made her younger. Morrison is just credited for giving the official age. But I mean if we went with her age before the 2000s and even maybe the 90s. Her age from the original appearance.

Marvel Handbook #8 (July 1986)

http://img519.imageshack.us/i/mhandbook08deluxe27massrx3.jpg/

The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe Vol. III (Master Edition) (1990)

http://img261.imageshack.us/i/offhandbookmarveldeluxedi8.jpg/

1986 and 1990, just 6 and 10 years before her first appereance, Uncanny X-Men #129 (January 1980), your fanboyism is blinding you dear.

Wow you are right. I guess an Emma fan would know. And it really isn't fanboyism. I just really remember this one place where I read that Emma was introduced as 40 and her age was changed. There were a bunch of Emma fans who said that and agreed to it so I just assumed it was the truth. Never mind all that then.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v40/newmsgt/scan0018.jpg
More cool telepathic stuff that Jean could do includes her using her telepathy to explode a cage that is designed to block psi-attacks. This cage is in fact designed by Mr. Sinister who usually could build something fool-proof. This gives a testimony to Jean's telepathic power.

In the Onslaught Saga Jean managed to create psi-shields that not even Onslaught could break through. This would be Xavier using telepathy to his full limits and I think Franklin's powers were added.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/5/55504/1039593-jeanvjug_super.jpg

Then way back in the 60s with regular Marvel Girl, Jean who has just started to use her telepathy manages to harm Juggernaut through his helmet. Only other person who I know of who could do this was Psylocke because her Psycho-Blast could physically harm the enemy. Although Juggernaut says that only Xavier can do this, Xavier was unable to before.

Also back in those days Jean managed to take on and best Mesmero which was a big deal back then. Jean was still learning how to use her telepathy so to take on another powerful psychic was probably big for her. though this may not count much.

actress Alice Eve who is 28 right now might play Emma in X-Men First Class,
wasn't she in the same age as cyke in Wolverine?
well still I think she's pretty and much prettier than Sigourney Weaver
I wonder if she being considered as a teenager or not this time

I guess she will be a student, Benjamin Walker, the actor who will be Beast is 28 as well.
And it wont be the first time than an older actress portray a younger role, Famke Janssen was almost 40 when she played Jean Grey on the X Trilogy (how old was Jean on those movies, 30-32?) and she did an splendid job.

Yeah Famke did a pretty good job with jean but i honestly think that she could have done a better job. also, hollywood ruined the last movie. the phoenix was so lame, it could barely be called the phoenix. hope first class will live not just up to expectations but to what the whole thing is suppose to be. *fingers crossed*

Quote from: shadowslacks on June 28, 2010, 10:19PM
also, hollywood ruined the last movie. the phoenix was so gay.

I really hope that you are not using the word gay as a way to say stupid or dumb. That would be disapointing from you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS0GVOQPs0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVicCD8FmMs

Changed it. Keep talking ontopic people^^

EDIT: I know some people are offended by that here, because they are homosexual. It's something not everybody couldn't known, yet, they don't have to yell or anything that they are.

This was in response to the post below.

Let's just keep ontopic from now on. s-lacks apologized :)

by gay i did mean lame which is offensive. but really the phoenix on x3 was lame, the whole movie was lame and rushed. it was very disappointing.

edit. lol Mr.Law, exactly what i meant

so that word isnt allowed here even if it doesnt refer to anything prejudicial or related to cussing?
although i gotta apologise i wasnt thinking when typing that. my bad, sorry to those who got offended with the word.

X3 doesn't live up to people's expectations who loved X2 and expecting to see Jean with some cool looking Phoenix effects..(but still I loved the scene when Jean unleashes her fury in the end)
they changed her powers from X2, they killed Scott, Xavier and Jean in the end
and where the heck were Rogue and Angel during the final battle?
they totally abandoned the main cast of the first movie (Cyclops,Rogue,Mystique) with the exceptions of Wolverine and Storm because Berry wants bigger roles and Wolverine has always been on the top of movie
I think they should reboot the third movie like Superman Returns did with the old cast or an entirely new cast with Bryan Singer directing,
rebooting the entire franchise means it'll take another 8 or 10 years to see Phoenix in action
Famke was a perfect cast as Jean in X1 but I hate her hair in X2 which makes her look really old, she looks great in X3 but age-wise she's too old

True, but if they didn't cast Famke, people would've complained about it anyway. Sometimes we need to see films/movies as films/movies and not as comics.

yeah but maybe they could do something to her, like what they did to Magneto and Xavier by using the de-aging makeups or something else

Famke was perfect for the role, and a great example that age doesn't mean anytihing when you do a great job. Also I loved her hair in X2 ^^

Quote from: nshinnosuke on June 28, 2010, 11:59PM
yeah but maybe they could do something to her, like what they did to Magneto and Xavier by using the de-aging makeups or something else

Mmm i don't think so, she was great and in my opinion (even if she was older in fact) looks beautifull and more or less on the same age to the other lead actors like Hugh Jackman or Halle Berry.

yes I agree that at her age she's still pretty and she looks great with Wolverine and Storm as if they're at the same age but I just miss the young Famke from X1....

with the cast i may not have a problem but sometimes, i think giving the movies to an influential and brilliant director or producer just isn't enough. perhaps someone who knows the whole thing well enough, unless bryan is a huge fan

heck no i think the actors they got for the x-men movies were perfect.Famke is like 42,43,44 but yet she's a beautiful woman and i really think she does look like Jean Grey.Halle Berry is just beautiful and she needed a bigger role cause heck don't yall wan't bigger scenes for storm?Like her vs Callsito i love that scene she is like 42,43.And even without makeup on she just looks a little pale.And like what Mr Law said even though i didn't like how Jean killed off Scott directorss can't always make movies EXACTLY like the comics.Sometimes they have there own perspective.And about Rouge and Angel i love those characters and didnt really like the fact that she took the cure but hey if you were about 15, and you can never touch sumone without killing them i would take the cure.And i dont think she'll be able to do much in the war anyways unless she takes someones powers when there knocked out.And to tell the truth they really didn't show if Scott was dead(even though im 100% sure he is)Xavier has all his powers and mind into a person who didn't have a mind so now i think he can walk (check the deleted scene after the credits.)

i am in total disagreement with the first few statements. i actually thought that most of the characters lacked the substance, criticality and tone. they're all good actors alright but the question isnt just whether they can act, but how they can merge their acting skills, and the elements of their portrayed character together. however, i am not putting the blame on the entire cast because part of that comes from the script and the screen time they got. not mentioning all the factors that influenced the overall output, i'd say that the first two movies were good, and the third one a fail. but its just my opinion, and im not trying to invalidate all the others' opinions. but yeah, good cast? perhaps. good output? not so

i didn't entirely love the phoenix from X3.I mean she had no wings,no raptor.But she really didn't need that to kill millions of people.I really liked how she just melted everyone.She could have been better in my opinion if she had more fire and if all the x-men could battle her.I like Hugh Jackman but he got A LOT of screen time.

yeah I won't mind X3 being the last movie ONLY IF Jean had her raptor and some fiery effects like in X2, Scott didn't die, Angel and Rogue participates in the final battle (she could have some secondary mutation which enables her to fly and enchances her strength), Nightcrawler stays in the movie,   and all of the X-Men (Cyclops,Wolverine,Storm,Iceman,Rogue,Nightcrawler,Colossus,Shadowcat,Angel,Beast) fights Phoenix in the final battle with either Scott or Logan delivering the final blow
maybe we could blame Singer for Scott's death because Marsden left with him for Superman Returns

The actor who plays nightcrawler wanted to come bak but all the makeup he had to put was gonna take to long at least that's what i heard.I would have also love rouge to be in the battle but if you think about what exactly would she be able to do?She can't have Ms Marvels power.And they never really showed Cyclops actually dying although im sure he's dead

LOL now that you guys mentioned it, i find it funny how i barely felt the phoenix all through out the movie. its kinda cool how she tore them molecule to molecule.
also, there were several user made alternate effects for the final moments of the phoenix in xmen3. it was around youtube months after the release of the movie, and they were cooler! they gave jean fiery effects. anyway, i can only hope for the first class to be of quality

also, it's what pissed me before because Scott's death was due to Mardsen leaving the set for Superman.


edit. thats right jeanfan. i think it's the same thing for nightcrawler and mystique because i remember in  the interview that mystique had to isolate herself for days so the chemistry of her skin and the paint will be compatible. and when i say isolate, i mean exclude herself from a lot of outdoor activities just so her skin's chemistry won't change or anything for days. thats a very tough job


found the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Al8-EoYAuGM&feature=related thats an edited version of xmen3. the phoenix should have been like that

ALSO they cut the scenes with the phoenix showing her full power ill try to find the video it's where the phoenix prattically made like a artificial sun and burned the people in magnetos army

Quote from: Jeanfan321 on June 29, 2010, 07:18AM
ALSO they cut the scenes with the phoenix showing her full power ill try to find the video it's where the phoenix prattically made like a artificial sun and burned the people in magnetos army

for real? from the movie? like x3?

yes here!!! and its the same dialogs from the original scene
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAGUNp8TpxY

Oh that one! it's a shame they removed some scenes though. You saw Storm's deleted scene right when she summoned a huge wave of water from the sky?

yep it was great they should have kept that scene then make Callisto jump on her

I hated Callisto in the movie cos she freakin bruised Storm haha it looked funny in a way. Idk what they were thinking but taking off those scenes was a mistake, dont u think

Quoteyes here!!! and its the same dialogs from the original scene
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAGUNp8TpxY

it was better  :(
i hate her clothes and she should have fire effects
she looks more like scarlett witch...

QuoteI hated Callisto in the movie cos she freakin bruised Storm haha it looked funny in a way. Idk what they were thinking but taking off those scenes was a mistake, dont u think

I hated her too  :chuckle:
i was so dissapointed about mystique.... I know her skin was hard to make but WHAT A SHAME!!!

HECK yeah but Storm usually gets beat up then she attacks the enemy like in X-men saber tooth chocked her almost to death and almost broke her neck and toad probably gave her the beating of a lifetime lol.Taking those scenes out was a mistake cause im sure when people left the movies they were thinking of how awful it was.But im sure if they kept in some of those deleted scenes people wouldn't think X3 was that bad or heck,if they showed a scene where scott was alive people would love the movie cause there gonna get there powers back,mystique will probably get revenge on magneto, and Xavier is alive in another persons body on Muir Island.And the Phoenix will rise from the ashes

@mj fan she definitely could have been given a bigger role! what they did was turn her into a human! 

@jeanfan321  yeah, i dont know but i didnt like the idea of having storm beaten up all the time esp by callisto lol also, if they gave it a better plot, im sure a lot of fans will go watch the 4th one or something

yeah but did you forget Callisto can run fast in X3 and has high sense so she pratticaly knows what your gonna do before you do it.And Storm is suppose to be good in hand to hand combat so i think they wanted storm to go to-to toe with someone instead of always making a storm

nope but idk maybe im just biased as i am a storm fan too lol

yess so am i remeber how i used to have the name stormfan321? haha i love storm and emma frost than i do emma the only reason my name is jeanfan321 cause it's shorter than storm321 and im lazy

so you are stormfan321? i didnt know that! lol

haha lol

X3 really did need a Phoenix Raptor. Scott should not have died. I think Jean did need to die because her death is a symbol of the DPS Saga. However her resurrection is too so she should come back.

there have been negotiations with Bryan Singer to make X4 a reality but what about people's reactions if they brought back Scott,Jean and Xavier after killing them? (Scott's body is found, Xavier transferred his mind and Jean Grey ressurects once again)
but without these characters the X-Men will not feel the same again, so maybe the best way is by rebooting the third film

Agreed. So there deaths wouldn't have meaning.

well then they're gonna have to look for a smarter plot if X4 happens.However, I have a feeling X4 will be under a different plot, probably not a continuation of X3 because some of the old characters like Famke and i think Mardsen won't be reprising their roles.

Marsden said he'd come back if they asked him. As far as death not meaning anything....well... I think the only person that NEEDS to come back is Cyclops. There are many times that Cyke as led the x-men without him. It would be fine.

I think he needs more spotlight. He is the leader and not Wolverine, but Wolverine is a cashcow. Even if he doesn't come back I think Storm needs to take over as in the final battle of X3 it seems like Wolverine was in charge.

I agree. Wolverine is a cash cow in the comics as well. Doesn't mean he needs to lead the team. It would have been perfectly acceptable for Cyclops (the tactician) come up with the same plan.

that would be good if mardsen is still interested, but judging by the turn of events for x3, i cant help but feel that it will be an entirely different plot with an entriely new set of cast. who knows though, right?

Quotebut without these characters the X-Men will not feel the same again, so maybe the best way is by rebooting the third film

The resolution of the Phoenix subplot is a tragic rush job. Instead what we get is a cop-out of an ending where Jean begs Wolverine to kill her, which unfortunately weakens the character of Jean Grey. It would show off Jean's strengths if she actually embraced all that Professor Xavier taught her and were able to keep the Phoenix under control herself.
by the way i hate the way how they made her she is so ugly
the film that suffered from the condensed timetable is the script itself.  There are bits of dialogue that scream out in desperate need of a script doctor.
So yes i really hope they will rebooting it and make a better story 

QuoteMarsden said he'd come back if they asked him.

are you sure ? that would be great..

this thread is getting too sidetracked, perhaps further talk bou first class should take place in the movie thread.

when is X-Men first class coming out?

Quote from: Jordan on June 29, 2010, 06:02PM
when is X-Men first class coming out?

Summer of 2011 i suppose, but dates  usually remain tentative, typically.

o kool thanks to everyone who has voted so far......Jean Grey is winning but Emma still has hope(i think emma will lose)

Jean Grey will definantly beat Emma Frost

I love both equally and I do not know for whom to vote))) Lol. But likely Jean will win, she is after all a phoenix. But also Emma is strong. Even more - it the amazing beauty!