Marvel Mods

OK, heres the first screenshot of the first mesh I've managed to get into MUA.
It's exported with the old Alchemy Max exporter from the artists pack.
And YES, there are a few problems (like it being half the size it should be, and the physiquing being wonky on the hands, and the perennial RGB-BGR in the skin).
BUT!
IT!
WORKS!
It's animated in game, following the existing animations as far as I can see (he has no powers so its a bit hard to tell).
It's proof of concept.
No more searching for XML2 meshes to fit characters.
I have literally hundreds of meshes I've made for Freedom Force that I can now export (with some work, true) for MUA.
I'm SO excited.
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/tommyboy2002/Hawkeye_tvlite.jpg)

I'll get to work fixing him, then post the results, and eventually the mesh.
This could be BIG news.

Awesome, great to hear.  :) I figured youd figure it out, im a big fan of your work with Freedom Force.

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/tommyboy2002/Hawkeye_tvlite2.jpg)

Progress, as you can see.
The right size, sorted the colours,
just that pesky hand to fix.
The above montage, left to right: selection screen, jumping in game, standing in game.

I'll post more when I have it.
But to whet your appetites, think about some of the meshes I've made that you can see previews of here:
http://tommyboymeshes.freedomforceforever.com/

Holy Chocolate egg! I LOVE you. Now, just make me an Ultimate Hawkeye, and I'll have your babies...




But, seriously, great work dude. Now if Noelemahc(sp?) can straighten out the sounds, we'll have a proper Hawkeye!

(well, except for the mannequin, but let's not rain on this parade)

Oh, I'll fix your mannequin, and your little dog too....
Sorry I digress.

KIDS!
Be the first on your block to download the new Hawkeye_tom_beta mesh.
http://www.momoshare.com/file.php?file=7d2e386b0b8226e2b970188b3944655a
Basically, test it out, tell me whats wrong so I can fix it.
What I already know:
The shoulders/tops of arms need fixing
The armbands need fixing.

Other meshes will follow , but for now I need sleep, I got a job interview tomorrow...

Oh no! Good luck Tommy, can't believe youre working on this and still meshing for FF too.  listen to me people,  this boy of tommy is actually a machine.

Dude, you're now officially a hero. I now have an incentive to convert the sounds back and forth do finish it up mucho faster. *whips out grindstone*

(That doesn't mean I will stop trying to get the PSP meshes to work... or at least to get their textures out.)

I'm busily working out what can be done, and how to do it.
One possible stumbling block is I dont seem to be getting any mipmaps into the meshes yet.
Now, thats a good thing from the point of view of reskinning, since you will only have to rip out, reskin and reinsert one of every map.
But it could mean performance is hit as there will be no mipmapping on zooming out.

The way I set up my Freedom Force meshes I typically have one map for the main figure, then several other maps for extras like bootcuffs, weapons, hair etc etc.
These will be included in my MUA meshes, so what we gain in losing mipmaps, we lose in gaining extra maps.

Another gain, all my meshes are mapped the same way, so you can start with a base skin and go from there, not have to start from scratch with every character.
I can also provide wiremaps for the main character and any extras.

So far I've tidied up Hawkeye a little, and made a new Mar-Vell and a Genis-Vell.

Next up, a classic 60's Mandarin, so those extra slots in the Mandarin Mod get some use.

I'll upload the marvells when I'm happy with them. ETA of a mandarin mesh, tomorrow or day after.

At some stage I'll open up the floor to mesh/skin requests, but will forewarn people that I don't much like the Xmen, Ultimates or New Avengers, so they are for me VERY low priority meshes.
Other good news, I think you may well find one or two other Freedom Force Meshers might start exporting their work for MUA.

Quote from: thetommyboy2002 on December 13, 2006, 04:19PM
At some stage I'll open up the floor to mesh/skin requests, but will forewarn people that I don't much like the Xmen, Ultimates or New Avengers, so they are for me VERY low priority meshes.

In regards to that, I would say that IF I was you, before I opened the floor to requests, I would finish off each of the PSP character's 4 models (which includes Ultimate versions of Hawk, Marvel, and Widow).

Having said that, I've never used Freedom Force before (shame on me, I know). However, if you can iron out all the wrinkles with this conversion (like the hand thing), I would love to help with making meshes of my own. Any insight into this would be helpful. Would I need the full game, or would the demo be sufficient? Any links to useful tutorials/programs would also be appreciated.

Quote from: BliZZ on December 13, 2006, 05:37PM
In regards to that, I would say that IF I was you, before I opened the floor to requests, I would finish off each of the PSP character's 4 models (which includes Ultimate versions of Hawk, Marvel, and Widow).

Having said that, I've never used Freedom Force before (shame on me, I know). However, if you can iron out all the wrinkles with this conversion (like the hand thing), I would love to help with making meshes of my own. Any insight into this would be helpful. Would I need the full game, or would the demo be sufficient? Any links to useful tutorials/programs would also be appreciated.

I'm not promising to make all 16 PSP exclusive characters. To be honest, I have pretty much zero interest in the likes of Ultimate Captain Marvel, and very little interest in Ultimate Hawkeye or Ultimate Black Widow, and Zero interest in Ronin full stop. I may make them all, but they aren't who I want in the game, so they probably aren't going to be the first things I make.
But I'm pretty prolific, and pretty fast, so you probably wont have to wait too long.

As to meshing, I'll put together a "how-to" guide.
The minimum you need is:
3dstudio Max (at least V4.2, probably) and the ability to use it.
The Alchemy Artists Pack, or at least the 3dsMax exporters, though the Viewer is handy.
DDS plugins for 3dsMax
A paint prog that can cope with DDS files (ie photoshop, Paint shop pro).
An understanding of Meshing and skinning.

You don't need freedom force to mesh. The meshes I'm putting into MUA are ones I already made for use in Freedom Force, adapted by me for MUA.
You could start from scratch and make all new meshes, but for me, it's quicker and easier to convert some of the hundreds of meshes I've already made rather than reinvent the wheel.


Meanwhile, heres a sneak preview of Classic_Mandarin_tom, with his friends Captain_Mar-vell_tom, Hawkeye_tom, and Scarlet witch (an XML2 mesh, not one of mine).
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/tommyboy2002/classic_mandarin_and_friends.jpg)

Quote from: thetommyboy2002 on December 13, 2006, 06:00PM
As to meshing, I'll put together a "how-to" guide.
The minimum you need is:
3dstudio Max (at least V4.2, probably) and the ability to use it.
The Alchemy Artists Pack, or at least the 3dsMax exporters, though the Viewer is handy.
DDS plugins for 3dsMax
A paint prog that can cope with DDS files (ie photoshop, Paint shop pro).
An understanding of Meshing and skinning.

Would MilkShape work? Or does it not have the proper exportation tools? (Sadly, I don't have 3dsMax, although I guess it wouldn't be too hard to get ;))

Quote from: BliZZ on December 13, 2006, 06:28PM
Would MilkShape work? Or does it not have the proper exportation tools? (Sadly, I don't have 3dsMax, although I guess it wouldn't be too hard to get ;))

I don't recall an Alchemy Exporter plugin being in the Alchemy Artists Pack, (but I wasn't looking for one), if there isn't an exporter plugin, you can't export, so that's that.

The Hawkeye skin looks really nice. It's a better alternative to a Wolverine re-paint.  I think I'm going to stay away from meshing since I know nothing about it and don't have 3d studio max.  But this is great that you can use all of your FF meshes/skins.

There used to be an XML2 modder named Tetragene who made a bunch of Dazzler skins and a Shadowcat skin.  I'm pretty sure he was also a FF mesher and he'd probably be interested in something like this.

Quote from: thetommyboy2002 on December 13, 2006, 04:19PMSo far I've tidied up Hawkeye a little, and made a new Mar-Vell and a Genis-Vell.

I've just thought of a way for you to kill two birds with one stone. For some reason, the PSP modellers decided that they wanted to make two Captain Marvel skins which were nearly identical. If you felt like like it, some small skin edits could turn Genis-Vell into a Genis (basically change the red to white).
Genis-Vell ->  http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/Lanowar/Ultimate%20Alliance/Genis.jpg
Genis ->  http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/Lanowar/Ultimate%20Alliance/Genis2.jpg

is it just me or does that hawkeye mesh of tommyboy's look way BETTER than some of the actual in-game skins... ;D  ::thumbs up::

QuoteAt some stage I'll open up the floor to mesh/skin requests, but will forewarn people that I don't much like the Xmen, Ultimates or New Avengers, so they are for me VERY low priority meshes.

Which means ah'm screwed, as I'm an X-Men fanatick. :P
(This would be the point where I ask you if the exporter allows the creation of sub-meshes, such as ones used in MUA for weapons, as Hawkeye obviously draws his arrows from his quiver as boltons - they become separate models only once shot; he also looks like he tries to put the bow away after each shot, but it's glued to his hand :P)

And, on a seemingly unrelated note... Why isn't Hawkeye's head moving with the rest of the anims like it did with the (native) stand-in models?

Quote from: Noelemahc on December 13, 2006, 09:53PM

QuoteAt some stage I'll open up the floor to mesh/skin requests, but will forewarn people that I don't much like the Xmen, Ultimates or New Avengers, so they are for me VERY low priority meshes.

Which means ah'm screwed, as I'm an X-Men fanatick. :P
(This would be the point where I ask you if the exporter allows the creation of sub-meshes, such as ones used in MUA for weapons, as Hawkeye obviously draws his arrows from his quiver as boltons - they become separate models only once shot; he also looks like he tries to put the bow away after each shot, but it's glued to his hand :P)

And, on a seemingly unrelated note... Why isn't Hawkeye's head moving with the rest of the anims like it did with the (native) stand-in models?

No, nobody's screwed, they just aren't my top priority. If people request them (and I 'm guessing they will), I'll make them, I just wont tend to make them of my own volition the way I would Avengers characters. And call me elitist, but anyone contributing to the Modding/meshing/skinning/programming scene gets requests done as a matter of course (provided I actually can make it of course). Got to keep people sweet.

RE the bolt-ons, bows, guns knives built in to the mesh, and being able to put them away. Good news/bad news. Yes you can have seperate bits is the good news, how you set them up to disappear during the animations? I don't know is the bad news.
Remember that there is zero documentation for how to do anything in this game, and I consider it pretty much dumb luck that I managed to figure out the export settings at all. When I look at my meshes in a hex editor to look at the structure, they look to me more like the XML2 meshes than the MUA ones, at first glance.
It's one of those "to be figured out" things, and I'm still very much on the basics at the moment.

As for the Hawkeye head, well, in meshing when you physique a mesh you assign all the vertexes in a given area to a bone in the biped skeleton. When I assinged the vertexes in his head to the head bip, his head got stretched four foot upwards, so I assigned them to his neck bip instead. It's another thing I need to figure out, or it may just be something that we'll have to live with if I can't figure it out. Hopefully other meshers will start to make stuff and crack this and other problems if I can't.   

Quotehow you set them up to disappear during the animations? I don't know is the bad news.

That's already defined in the talent and herostat files, if you look attentively (they define what has to appear for which anim). All you gotta do is assign the correct names to the geometry bits (i.e. 20301_hawkeye_bow, arrow, etc. - take a look into the PSP model dumps for the names). Because it is evident that Hawk's grab special attack is dependent on a non-existant arrow bolton as he reaches into his quiver and does a sticking motion - like he's driving it into the other guy's skull, but since there is no bolton, there is no contact point and, hence, no damage being done.

QuoteAnd call me elitist, but anyone contributing to the Modding/meshing/skinning/programming scene gets requests done as a matter of course (provided I actually can make it of course). Got to keep people sweet.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't say I minded that. You're the main guy who can do this, means you get top priority in deciding stuff you want to make. That's at least one thing my attempts at getting an economic education taught me.

QuoteWhen I look at my meshes in a hex editor to look at the structure, they look to me more like the XML2 meshes than the MUA ones, at first glance.

Which is normal, since the export plugins that are floating on the Net is for Alchemy v2.5. XML1 used that. XML2 uses 3.-something. MUA uses 4.0.-something. See a pattern? It's a miracle they're all backwards compatible.

Quote from: Noelemahc on December 14, 2006, 06:18AM

Quotehow you set them up to disappear during the animations? I don't know is the bad news.

That's already defined in the talent and herostat files, if you look attentively (they define what has to appear for which anim). All you gotta do is assign the correct names to the geometry bits (i.e. 20301_hawkeye_bow, arrow, etc. - take a look into the PSP model dumps for the names). Because it is evident that Hawk's grab special attack is dependent on a non-existant arrow bolton as he reaches into his quiver and does a sticking motion - like he's driving it into the other guy's skull, but since there is no bolton, there is no contact point and, hence, no damage being done.

Good thinking, I'll look at that today. Thanks.
If you are right, that'll be a big help in getting Widow, Hawkeye, Ronin right.
Anyone got that link to the screenshots of all the rest of the PSP exclusives?
Because I can't remember where they were, or what they were.

Yeah, I got the link saved. Let me dig that up...
http://vip.marvelultimatealliance.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=4857

If you're not a member yet, here are the direct links:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/Lanowar/Ultimate%20Alliance/Hawkeye1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/Lanowar/Ultimate%20Alliance/Hawkeye2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/Lanowar/Ultimate%20Alliance/Hawleye3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/Lanowar/Ultimate%20Alliance/Hawkeye4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/Lanowar/Ultimate%20Alliance/Ronin.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/Lanowar/Ultimate%20Alliance/Ronin2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/Lanowar/Ultimate%20Alliance/Ronn3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/Lanowar/Ultimate%20Alliance/Ronin4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/Lanowar/Ultimate%20Alliance/Genis.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/Lanowar/Ultimate%20Alliance/Genis2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/Lanowar/Ultimate%20Alliance/Mar-vel.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/Lanowar/Ultimate%20Alliance/Ultimate.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/Lanowar/Ultimate%20Alliance/Widow1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/Lanowar/Ultimate%20Alliance/Widow2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/Lanowar/Ultimate%20Alliance/Widow3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v149/Lanowar/Ultimate%20Alliance/Widow4.jpg

The original poster had quirky hands and misspelled a lot of filenames, as you can see. The point gets across clearly though. If you need them, I can probably find you comic book scans  and snaps for clearer reference.

Thanks, those will do for now.
I'm not keen on Hawkeyes "street clothes" "costume". I mean, whats the point, really?
Most of the rest of those I think I can do though.
16 meshes and skins x between 4 to 10 hours work each = a while...

Considering that the two Genis skins differ only in colour, and so do Hawk's 2nd and 4th? And so do Ronin's 3rd and 4th... And her 2nd is a mix-n-match between the 1st and the 3rd... It's a shorter while this way, neh?

I'd be more interested in seeing you adapt your FF Swordsman mesh for MUA :P (Sorry, there are no references for him out there, and I am seemingly far from getting a clearpicture from the PSP files).

Swordsman is next on my personal todo list. I'm having to physically restrain myself from making him till I know the ins and outs a little better. But within the next couple of days...
I'm just playing around with Hawkeye, trying to figure out this bow_back_segment, bow_hand_segment business.
In the PSP files the labels are "20301_bow_L_hand_segment" etc, so thats what I'm naming mine.
HOWEVER...since the only working powers version of hawkeye I have at the moment is your (wonderful) replace Wovie "0301" version, that may be the fly in the ointment, as the game sometimes takes these numbers quite literally (and sometimes ignores them).
Edit:
20301_bow_L_hand didnt work so obviously I'll also try naming them 0301_bow_L_hand etc. 
Edit the second:
0301_bow_L_hand etc also dont appear and disappear.
Several possibilities come to mind.
1. The "using 0301 rather than 20301" theory, that something in the skeleton animation file looks for a match both in the filename (0301.igb) and within the file to the part name (0301_bow_L_hand_segment). If there is no match, they dont work.
2. I'm physiquing the parts to the mesh. They may make theirs using the "skin" modifier rather than the "physique" modifier, and there are differences. Or they may be "linking" the bow etc to the corresponding Bip. If any of these are set up wrongly, I could see the animations not working right.
3. I'm just too dumb to figure it out.

More when I know more.

Try looking into the talent file's references to how this is formed. Or, better yet, rebuild-- okay, so I guess forcing you to rebuild the herostat with the native PSP commands for Hawky reaplcing something else is tantamount to putting the whole modding effort onto your already overburdened shoulders...

I'll see what I can do about giving you a recoded herostat. In the meantime, use the ones the PSP models use and hope for the best.

Another good news bad news post:
On the plus side, I now have the head issue fixed, on the minus side it means I have to go back and remake from almost scratch the four meshes I already did (Hawkeye, Mar-vel, Genis1, Mandarin_classic).

Still, at least their heads will move when they finally get done.

And as for me remaking the herostats, talent files etc etc?
I'm not great at doing that, so I may just wait for you or anyone else to do a PSP-native release of Hawkeye, while I concentrate on what I can do, which is make the meshes and skins.

Which is exactly what I attempted to mean with my post. Sorry if I mislead you.
Thumbs up on the head issue, very much looking forward to looking at it :D

Okeydokey, heres an updated Hawkeye_tom mesh and skin. The head is properly animated and I've improved a couple of other bits too.
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/tommyboy2002/Hawkeye_tom_igb.jpg)

The file can be found here:
http://www.momoshare.com/file.php?file=c1b5ef618a9e012eda813acb8b395fb6

just rename the .igb to whatever model you are replacing, ie to 0301.igb if using Noelemahc's "hawkeye replaces wolvie" mod.

Let me know what you think, in what ways it's broken, could be improved etc etc.

I still haven't sussed out the business of putting the bow on his back etc, that will have to wait a bit.

Another Hawkeye done:
Ultimate_hawkeye_tom:
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/tommyboy2002/ultimate_Hawkeye_tom_igb.jpg)

Found here:
http://www.momoshare.com/file.php?file=fe0fc562d0445800348c6412b5e6a705

And a Swordsman_1_tom
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/tommyboy2002/swordsman_t.jpg)

found here:
http://www.momoshare.com/file.php?file=bc424aa7b805f7ce7f259d040245550a

Time to make up a new talents file?

And to placate Xmen fans who might fear I'll never release any Mutant Meshes:
Cyclops_classic_tom:
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/tommyboy2002/cyclops_classic_tom_mua.jpg)

Found here:

http://www.momoshare.com/file.php?file=545d18d7ec2e598d5dbbc309b1a51540

N.B. both Swordsman and Cyclops do not have working powers mods as yet.
Please be patient, or help make them if you can.

And any would-be skinners who would like to edit my meshes/skins, heres a wiremap of the basic male that most are based on:
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/tommyboy2002/tom_basic_wiremap.jpg)

"Simply" open up the mesh in texturefinder, and locate the skin and extract as normal.
Because they all use a standard layout, it should also be easier to find the textures.
Plus, no mipmaps (as yet), or bumpmaps to worry about.

Crosspost:
I couldn't sleep and I had an epiphany.
Why wouldn't ordinary meshes work as mannequins?
What was different?
Could it be that like my meshes, the mannequins were exported containing keyframes, rather than using a seperate keyframe/animation file like the meshes in Actors?
Yes, it could. I swapped in two of my meshes, and you can see the results below:
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/tommyboy2002/mannequins2.jpg)
Thts a bit hard to see, but this one is clearer:
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/tommyboy2002/mannequins1.jpg)

So, now we can put any mannequin we want in there too.
I just have to make a special set of limited keyframes (as my current ones do WAY too much running, punching etc etc etc.), ones that just stand and breathe and maybe fidget a bit.
WOOOOHOOOO!.
Sorry, got a bit excited again.

The other vaguely exciting bit of the above post is that my animations worked on the selection screen, suggesting that if set up and named correctly, I can also make keyframe/animation sets for characters who don't currently have them.
And maybe even special combat/finishing anims too.
But I shouldn't get ahead of myself, none of the animation stuff is proven, but I can't see why it wont work if setup right.

Man, friggin' A! That's a good thing to hear. That's a VERY good thing to hear.

Also, I don't think I caught a reply -- would you need reference shots from comic books on how the various other PSP chars look? The PSP snapshots look VERY grainy and un-detailed.

Oh, and just for the record, the poses the PSPers have on the selection screen:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v26/ivan_k/Marvel/sanstitremr4.jpg)
Image courtesy of Piccolo.

The only reference pics that might be handy are Ultimate captain marvel, and the Ronin/echo costumes. Everything else I either have in comics or know or can find online.

I still can't figure out the *&^%ing bump mapping. Everytime I export a file with a bump map, it works OK in the alchemy viewer, but CTD's the game.
Any ideas as to what format the MUA bump maps are saved in ?(if I try any DDS variants 3dsmax tells me the bump map needs to be 8bit greyscale.)
I've tried bmp,tga,png, all seem to CTD.
And I'm not having much luck getting mipmaps into my meshes either, as yet.
Apart from that, everythings dandy.
I'll try to upload versions of Hawkeye and Mar-vell that allow them to be used as mannequins without excessive movement on the select screen at some point in the next day or so.

QuoteThe only reference pics that might be handy are Ultimate captain marvel, and the Ronin/echo costumes. Everything else I either have in comics or know or can find online.

Okay, I have two flavours of Ronin on hand and can probably find the other two online. Will have to stretch for Ultimate Mar-Vell though. I'll get back to you on it.

QuoteI still can't figure out the *&^%ing bump mapping. Everytime I export a file with a bump map, it works OK in the alchemy viewer, but CTD's the game.

They're probably DXT5 DDSes with one or two channels. The latest, 7+ versions of the nVidia plugins support that export format.

Quote from: Noelemahc on December 15, 2006, 06:42AM
They're probably DXT5 DDSes with one or two channels. The latest, 7+ versions of the nVidia plugins support that export format.

Thanks.
I can install that version, but will doing so give other people the dreaded black spots on my meshes if I do so?
I suppose I should just try it rather than ask you questions you probably can't answer till I have done it.

Well, that was just swell.
Nvidias 7.83.062 version crashes my PSpro when I try to save as DDS.
So it would seem I'm stuck with 6.17, which does DXT5 ARGB interpolated alpha, which Max wont accept as a bump map format.
Time to look for other versions of the nvidia plugins, methinks.

Nominally, a bump map should be a one or two channel monochrome 8-bit image. Which means that you might import a BMP as one. If all else fails, you may save a BMP and send it to me and I'll try to convert it to DDS for you. *shrugs*

OR we should just try to dump a MUA bump map and see what format it is? :P

References:

Pluskommander Mahr Vell (Ultimate Mar-Vell):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v26/ivan_k/Marvel/MUA/MahrVell1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v26/ivan_k/Marvel/MUA/MahrVell2.jpg
The second one's for the back design reference and head close-up :P
I ain't got more of him -- though you can always look at his loading screen for reference (it's in the textures/loading folder, named appropriately).
Ronin:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v26/ivan_k/Marvel/MUA/Ronin1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v26/ivan_k/Marvel/MUA/Ronin2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v26/ivan_k/Marvel/MUA/Ronin3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v26/ivan_k/Marvel/MUA/RoninEcho.jpg

There are no good back piccurs of Ronin. The 4th pic is obviously used for her second costume. I'll go see if I can bully any fellow comic collectors into sharing the DD issues she appears in as Echo.

Nope, an 8bit greyscale BMP as bumpmap exports OK, looks OK in Alchemy Viewer, but CTDs the game.
I did try using the textureviewer to get an MUA bumpmap out, then reinsert it, but whatever format they are in MUA, it doesnt seem to be any of the DXT formats I can save as, as reinserting in the normal "strip the header and reinsert via hex editor" just gets you a messed up skin, even if you alter nothing.
Let me fiddle about some more, then if I fail, and if you are OK with it I'll email or upload a file and see if you can convert it.

(and thanks for the pic references, appreciate it.)
 

Found a cool little utility called "crazybump", which you can get here:
http://www.crazybump.com/beta/download.html
which saves a pic as an 8bit greyscaled jpeg, which when used as a bumpmap.....crashes the game to desktop.
Still a nice little utility to let you see what bumps a given pic will add as a bumpmap.

*goes back to hunting/experimenting*

Yup, the MUA bumps are EXACTLY DXT5_NM compressed DDSes. I just made a header switch and it opened okay in my Photoshop. Which means you got a problem with the plugin, dude. Throw your wannabe bumps as BMPs (remember to include a fancy alpha channel if you can -- MUA uses that as an extra normal map) at me and I'll convert'em for ya.

The format is as follows: the GREEN channel holds one half of the data, and the ALPHA channel holds the other half. When used together, they create the same visual effect you'd get as if you'd look at a Red-Green 3d image (you must've seen at least one as a kid! You needed special 3d glasses to see'em!) without the special glasses. It's hard to explain as Texture Finder doesn't give a rat's a$$ about alpha channels so unless you can rip it, you can't look at it proper.

EDIT: Click for sample (http://h1.ripway.com/ivank/0501_normal.rar). This is The Thing's 0501 1024x1024 bump/normal map (ripped and splotched with a DXT5_NM header). I'm not sure which since I've always had trouble following the jargon.

I'm still going to try and get the PsPro plugin to work for me, but if in a day or two I haven't, I'll take you up on that.

Three new mshes and skins:
Captain Marvel (Mar-vell)
Captain Marvel (Genis-vell)
Captain Marvel (Genis-vell_white)
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/tommyboy2002/mua_marvels2.jpg)

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/tommyboy2002/mua_marvels1.jpg)

They can be downloaded here:
http://www.momoshare.com/file.php?file=31e34c30804e0232c5c734c318791a34

And a Mandarin_classic mesh and skin:
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/tommyboy2002/mandarin_classic_tom.jpg)

Unfortunately the cape looks a bit weird, I'm still working the bugs out.

He can be downloaded here:
http://www.momoshare.com/file.php?file=9f51660d1d9d14bd74ccc01daf011584

Third Hawkeye mesh/skin, the West coast Avengers version:
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/tommyboy2002/hawkeye_wca_tom.jpg)

found here:
http://www.momoshare.com/file.php?file=9542b47683b6d1b0c85d71a36965a325

Now, this leaves one more hawkeye costume to make, and it's not going to be "street clothes".
So you get a vote, of sorts.
Should I make
the rather horrible costume circa Avengers vol 1 #100?
Or the Avengers Forever version?
Or the Iron Hawkeye armour from later west coast avengers?
Or the awful heroes reborn "brown plantman"?
Or some other costume? (if other, state where it appeared, preferably with a picture, or a link to where I can find a picture).

GOLDEN ARCHER!!!!! Or, if not, just make the 'Modern' one from the PSP version.

Quote from: BliZZ on December 16, 2006, 01:24PM
GOLDEN ARCHER!!!!! Or, if not, just make the 'Modern' one from the PSP version.

Heh, good call on Golden Archer, I'd forgotten Hawkeye "invented" him.
RE: PSP "modern" anyone know of a decent pic of it or where in comics it appears?

Quote from: thetommyboy2002 on December 16, 2006, 01:30PM
RE: PSP "modern" anyone know of a decent pic of it or where in comics it appears?

(http://images.wikia.com/marveldatabase/images/f/fb/Hawkeye_003.jpg)
I believe it is this ^

Ahhh... the "thunderbolts" look.
OK, thanks.

Meanwhile, as they used to say,
another Cyclops mesh and skin,
Cyclops_jimlee_tom:
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/tommyboy2002/cyclops_jimlee.jpg)

can be found here:
http://www.momoshare.com/file.php?file=d9226f84178c8068c89a61d5ef804c05

Thetommyboy2002 you wrote this about the mannequins:
Could it be that like my meshes, the mannequins were exported containing keyframes, rather than using a seperate keyframe/animation file like the meshes in Actors?

This sounded great but I don't have a noobie clue what you mean with keyframes.
So is it possible say to make one from existing files like the Black Widow mesh?
If so how do you manipulate those keyframes and what is it that you have to do to get them to act correctly. Then I could make them myself.

Thanks a lot for making them and finding these things for us!
I use both your Hawkeye and Cap Marvel mannequin and thats great but they look sideways. Is it possible to make them to look towards the viewer. If thats not possible no big problem, just would be nice.

Furthermore I see you have a lot of different mannequins for other characters too looking at the pictures. (Hulk/Scarlet Witch/Quicksilver/Beast?/Giant Man)How did you do that?
And if you made Scarlet Witch, Beast and Quicksilver available for the game (from the XML2meshes I supose?) can you upload those too? I read some postings about them being in the wrong color when moving the meshes from XML2 to MUA directly and reversing the color would solve that. But I realy don't know how to do that either. Otherwise I could import those myself too.  Sorry but I'm not really good at modding. I'm already happy I managed to get MK/Colossus in the game and that I replaced the Manderins(from the mod)extra spot with Cap Marvel, and I replaced Blade and Nick Fury with Hawkeye and Black Widow after following all your, Noelemahc and others instructions to the letter.

Oh and another small question. What are your graphic settings in the game? I have all those small black spots on your meshes but in your pictures they look spotless. Maybe it's in my settings that they apear that way. I tried a few settings but still they are there. Not a huge thing but it would be nice.

To make any type of keyframes you need 3dstudio max and the alchemy artists pack.
And it's not easy even when you have them. As yet I haven't figured out the format for new keyframes, as I am still figuring out obvious stuff like making the weapons appear at the right time, bump mapping, mipmapping etc etc etc.
Hopefully, eventually all this stuff will get done, but it's still early days. A week ago I couldnt make any meshes for the game, now I can, so progress is being made.
I'll try to rotate the "built in" keyframes I supply with my meshes in future releases, and I'll (at some point) update and fix all the ones I've released so far.
Most of the characters you see in the background selection screens are where I have copied an existing mannequin and re-skinned it, which gives a stand-in mannequin, but the results aren't that great.
I'll be making new meshes for Quicksilver, Beast and Wanda at some stage, I hope. If not, and nobody else does it, I'll upload the converted XML2 versions.

OK I leave those keyframes to you . It sounds complicated to explain for moddingdummies. But I''m happy with the ones you make and are making available to all of us :)

Great if you make new skins for Wanda, Pietro and Beast but I would already be happy with the converted ones.

Keep up the great work!

Quote from: Noelemahc on December 15, 2006, 12:31PM
Yup, the MUA bumps are EXACTLY DXT5_NM compressed DDSes. I just made a header switch and it opened okay in my Photoshop. Which means you got a problem with the plugin, dude. Throw your wannabe bumps as BMPs (remember to include a fancy alpha channel if you can -- MUA uses that as an extra normal map) at me and I'll convert'em for ya.

The format is as follows: the GREEN channel holds one half of the data, and the ALPHA channel holds the other half. When used together, they create the same visual effect you'd get as if you'd look at a Red-Green 3d image (you must've seen at least one as a kid! You needed special 3d glasses to see'em!) without the special glasses. It's hard to explain as Texture Finder doesn't give a rat's a$$ about alpha channels so unless you can rip it, you can't look at it proper.

EDIT: Click for sample (http://h1.ripway.com/ivank/0501_normal.rar). This is The Thing's 0501 1024x1024 bump/normal map (ripped and splotched with a DXT5_NM header). I'm not sure which since I've always had trouble following the jargon.

I've now got saving in DXT5_NM working.
I've taken your thing bumpmap (for which thanks by the way), and pasted ny own bump map into its green and alpha layers, then saved as a new file in the DXT5_NM mode.
And *&^%*ing Max (or Alchemy, or both) still wont accept it as a valid bumpmap.
I still get the "Warning: Bumpmap shader male_basic_mua uses an invalid texture format
for its bump map and will not be exported.
Alchemy requires 8-bit greyscale images for bump map textures" message.

If I try to greyscale the bumpmap prior to saving it as a DDS, I get an "error: only RGB color mode is supported" message.
So I'm still unable to export with bumpmaps.
I'll obviously continue to play aound with it, but if anyone else has any insights, please speak up.

Okay, that simply means the exporter needs a different bump map format.
Let me make a few of the ones my plugin collection allows, I'll up them and we'll see where it leads us, 'kay?

Thanks.
I've never had to worry about bump maps before (freedom force doesn't use them), and the combination of them, a different exporter than I'm used to, and different game engine than I'm used to is slowing me down a bit.
I appreciate the help though, and we know it can be done, we just need to figure out how.

In the meantime, heres a Hulk_tom twopack, a green and a grey version.
I replace colossus with him, as he looks good picking up foes and beating stuff with them or just throwing them away. you may want to adjust the scaling in herostat to 1.0 rather than 1.3, it depends on how big you want him.
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/tommyboy2002/hulks_mua.jpg)

The files can be found here:

http://www.momoshare.com/file.php?file=1ce7d2bf1bcd2f5add091a216fd89951

Crosspost:
I've seen a few people request this character:
Iron_fist_tom:
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/tommyboy2002/iron_fist_tom.jpg)

Mesh and skin available here:
http://www.momoshare.com/file.php?file=2b8fc4b71d4d81f5bdbd5c5d176af1f3

Seems to work rather well with Elektra's moves (I just replaced one of her skins).

I've finally gotten my hands on the issues of Daredevil with Echo in it (for the third and fourth Ronin costumes). I'll up the snaps tomorrow soon as I can, 'kay? Gotta hit the sack now. *yawn*

On an unrelated notes, the story's quite interesting, told mostly as child drawings and scribbles alongside the panels, instead of IN them. That's what you get when you cross a deaf girl with a blind guy, huh?
[Random fact: why is it that EVERY super-powered girlfriend Matt gets tries to kill 'im first? Elektra, Black Widow, Typhoid Mary -- and now Ronin/Echo. Once is an accident, twice is coincidence, but four times is def'fly a trend.]

Preview time.
All four "PSP exclusives"
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/tommyboy2002/pspexclusivesremeshed2.jpg)

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/tommyboy2002/pspexclusivesremeshed.jpg)

I'll try to release Ronin and the Widow soon. Neither have as yet got properly animated weapons (ie ones that get drawn and put away) as yet. But I'm still aiming towards figuring that out.

Dude, that's a GREAT Ronin. Although, I'm not sure she should have that much green. Widow looks good too, albeit a little cartoony for my tastes.

this will be ne of the noobiest statements ever but im confused...is there a hawkeye with powers? or just a skin? thers so much being said that im not sure

I don't know if it's more complicated than it seems, but I think the Daredevil's suit texture would really improve Widow's suit and Hawkeye's mask. Ronin might use a little, moderate darkening. It's just that it looks to me that some of these cool new skins don't match with the style of the original ones. Anyway, it's just an esthetic and personal tastes matter.

And Captain Marvel's hair looks funny. Perhaps not so big and less symmetric:
(http://www.jccomics.com/new/inventory/CaptainMarvel70sMiniBust.jpg)(http://www.c6.gammapatrol.com/images/CaptainMar-vell.jpg)
(googled images, hope they help)

Blizz, you could be right, but viewed with advanced lighting all colours become a bit more muted, so for now I'm leaving them as is. And Ronin's costume is hard to judge. I had a hard time just trying to decide if other than gold and green it had any colours. I actually left some green out (around the neck). Most of the pictures of herm are not very clear, so I made some judgement calls. Bottom line, these are my versions of these characters, not the defining ones. I'll think about darkening Ronin, but we already have a black panther, so I wont go too far down that road.

Rainy, yes, Noelemahc released fixed versions of all four psp characters files to make all their powers work.I've made three new meshes/skins of hawkeye. You'll have to read some other threads to find the links to Noelemahc's Mods, or look on the gamefaqs forum, cos i'm too tired to find the links for you tonight.

Boreman, yep, you may be right about the textures, but as yet, I don't know how to get bumpmaps to work in my meshes. And till I do figure it out, or someone else does, I'm afraid thats not going to happen. (But for my personal tastes, I don't like superheroes who all look like they are wearing chainmail or a string vest. Some clothes are just smooth textured, and I prefer that. If a character has a texure to their costume, I'll add it, but I don't think 90% do, contrary to what you see in this game).
RE:Ronin, see my reply to Blizz.
RE: Mar-vell, again, theres an element of artistic interpretation (or incompetence) that mean not every one will think a given mesh or skin is a "perfect" rendition.
But since I have to remake him(them) anyway, I'll see if I can improve the hair, as I wasn't 100% happy with it either.
RE: Meshes matching the style of the game, that's a tough one. It's quite hard to match another persons style, both in the modelling and the textures, and most of these skins were adapted from the more cartoon-y Freedom Force meshes and skins I made. Hopefully, I'll improve as I go, but there's balance between doing it fast and doing it right. A lot of the time I tend to err on the "do it fast" side of things, so I'll try to slow down a bit. 

thnks

Hey Tommy,
   am i correct in assuming that the meshes you've done for MUA have the same mapping as in FF?

I guess i'm going to have to cracxk down and look into finding nelehmac's mods and the gamefaq forum,   cause i havent had much luck modding MUA so far (with next to nil effort mind you :P )

I really like what you've been able to accomplish so far for MUA (but i hope ff doesnt lose ya)

Hey, Detourne.
Yes, they are all male_basic type mapping, and extras are typically on the same maps as my versatile and lite ff meshes (ie zemo bits, tom_extras, strangefate bits).
When the ladies start showing up, they'll be on female basic mapping.
The trickier part is that you have to extract/insert the skin into the mesh as it all comes in one mesh/skin package, but MUAskinner and texture viewer should help with that.
Once you do it once it gets easier thereafter.

And putting the brakes on my Modding/meshing etc for a little while is the fact that my monitor died last night. The one I'm using to type this is an older, smaller one that apparantly is unable to display the colour Red, which rules out most aristic endeavours.
Since I have no money, until I can fix one or other of these ^%&*ers, (or beg or borrow cash or another screen), consider me on "hold".

I'm sorry to hear that thetoommyboy2002  :-[
I'm enjoying your skins a lot and was exited about your remakes without the black spots and the two new skins for Ronin and the Black Widow looked great too.
I hope you get (or borrow) your new monitor somehow.
It's a bummer to have to wait. You were getting better and better at this all the time.

PS: since you aren't making new skins for them at the moment can you upload your XML2 skins you already converted for MUA? Thanks in advance.

is that daredevil avatar taken from one of the marvel vs capcom beat em ups?  Can you tell me which if so please mate

Quote from: Will on December 22, 2006, 07:56AM
is that daredevil avatar taken from one of the marvel vs capcom beat em ups?  Can you tell me which if so please mate

Got it from here: http://www.gifmaniacos.com/ (http://www.gifmaniacos.com/)

Yeah. There never was a CAPCOM game featuring ol' Hornhead, so this must be a very good fan edit. My Magnus, however, is a genuine article :D

Updated Hawkeye 3pack featuring Hawkeye_classic, Hawkeye_wca, Ultimate_hawkeye, hopefully no longer featuring the black blobs. Can now be used as mannequins as well. 
Downloadable here:
Edit:
make that:
http://www.momoshare.com/file.php?file=b44569258b8f57ac146a0a195596a9b5

And these should be no-black-blob versions of the hulk_green and hulk_grey:
http://www.momoshare.com/file.php?file=046228741593f31c5e3db1cd898cc7f2

Glad to see it is still possible for you to make spotless versions of your previous made skins.
Thanks again

Heres a fixed Iron fist:
http://www.momoshare.com/file.php?file=432080a5035fa05c14bc797954a6ff79

And a fixed mar-vell with new animation for using him as a mannequin:
http://www.momoshare.com/file.php?file=d288292e057312d1ebca17dcb22e08e0

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/tommyboy2002/marvellmannequin.jpg)

Wooot!
Some progress!
I now have somewhat figured out the putting weapons away stuff.
Still some way to go, but at the moment I have a Hawkeye model where the bow only appears in his hand when he's getting it off his back.
More when I know more, but this could be useful.
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/tommyboy2002/hawkeye_bow1.jpg)

Of course, this means yet another version of the hawkeye mesh/skins, but at least now he only has his bow out when appropriate.
(and note the arrow present on the "finishing" moves (though I have to rotate it)).
I would make and upload these tonight, but I've been invited out for a christmas drink with a friend, so likely tomorrow.
This will mean Ronin, Widow, Swordsman etc etc can have the right weapons at the right times.

GREAT job!! Are the arrows built into the meshes themselves? If so, does/will Ult Hawk have brown arrows while WC/Classic costumes have purple arrows?

Thanks.
Yep, the arrows/bows/whathave you are built in, and skinnable, so will be colour co-ordinated with the costumes where appropriate, and yep, Ult Hawk gets brown gear, other Hawks get purple etc.
If someone can find me screenshots of his other PSP extras ("ball", "glue", Bird" etc) I can model them in too, and release yet another updated version.
 

Right, I just got a bargain second hand 20" monitor from a friend, so I'm back, baby!
Which means you get the fixed Hawkeye three pack, with no-blob skins, and bow and arrow that animate correctly and get put away and taken out at the right times.
http://www.momoshare.com/file.php?file=fb7cd41823ee4ce28c9ec1db6afad953
I'm pretty close to being able to release a Ronin mesh/skin too. I just have a few tweaks to make, with luck it may get uploaded later today.
Merry xmas, happy hannukah, sensational solstice etc.

Dude, you ROCK! *runs away to playtest*

(Psst... Are you sure you don't want no fancy avatar/sigpic graphics? I could make you some even :P)

EDIT: Just as I said, the arrows now appear for EVERY shooting power. Finally!
To get the arrows to work 100% accurately, copy the file arrow.igb from your MODELS\WEAPONS directory to your MODELS\EFFECTS directory and rename it to "hawkeye_arrow.igb". If you got my FX and package fixpacks, you should also see all the effects (i.e. burning arrow, icy arrow) properly as well.

And heres a Ronin 2pack, masked and unmasked.
I think the weapons should work OK, but I haven't been able/bothered to get his/her/it's powers working correctly, so I can't be 100% sure.
http://www.momoshare.com/file.php?file=27da68701472d38fbb30e4df2d81a584

Merry Christmas Tom, wish i had a gift to give ya, but well, the power of my mind and well wishing souldn't be underestimated :D... thanks for your good work, and with FR down, i gotta say your generosity over the past year is ubparalelled. thank you.

Continuing the references fad:
Echo (from Daredevil v2, #12-15, as she pummels DD into a bloody pulp, shooting him up occasionally):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v26/ivan_k/Marvel/MUA/E2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v26/ivan_k/Marvel/MUA/E3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v26/ivan_k/Marvel/MUA/E4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v26/ivan_k/Marvel/MUA/E5.jpg
From Daredevil v2 #50-something, as she spends THREE WHOLE ISSUES just talking to Wolverine at a campfire. Without even showing DD ONCE.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v26/ivan_k/Marvel/MUA/E6.jpg

And an X-Mas suprise, actual snapshots of PSP models, courtesy of Piccolo (they're all pixel-for-pixel, so if you want more detail, you gotta enlarge them on yer own, sorry):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v26/ivan_k/Marvel/MUA/Round1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v26/ivan_k/Marvel/MUA/Round2a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v26/ivan_k/Marvel/MUA/Round2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v26/ivan_k/Marvel/MUA/Round3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v26/ivan_k/Marvel/MUA/Round4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v26/ivan_k/Marvel/MUA/Team.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v26/ivan_k/Marvel/MUA/Swordsmancollage.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v26/ivan_k/Marvel/MUA/Vell.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v26/ivan_k/Marvel/MUA/Natasha.jpg <it's actually DIFFERENT from 14801.igb!>
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v26/ivan_k/Marvel/MUA/Maya.jpg

As we can all see, Ronin's third and fourth costumes differ only in her top and wrappings (tank top and white full-length arm wraps for #3 and tube top and black partial arm wraps (with the palms and fingers left uncovered) for #4).


EDIT: Okay, tested the models :D The Unmasked one causes a CTD for some odd and unexplainable reason. The Masked one works okay, the weapons work perfectly well too. Except for the gun, it's pitch black for no apparent reason. BUT now the power cycling power (Echo Effect) works 100% spot-on, which is a good thing. Yay. All I gotta do now I recolour 0250.igb to fit the color scheme of Ronin's, as her 20710.igb animations fit that model to a T. She actually copies DD's EXTREME attack in one of the moves! Eats up lots of energy, but does WHOMPING damage.

Quote from: BliZZ on December 16, 2006, 02:08PM

Quote from: thetommyboy2002 on December 16, 2006, 01:30PM
RE: PSP "modern" anyone know of a decent pic of it or where in comics it appears?

(http://images.wikia.com/marveldatabase/images/f/fb/Hawkeye_003.jpg)
I believe it is this ^

After some extensive searching, I've realized that that is, in fact, NOT his modern costume. It is this one (http://www.marveldatabase.com/Image:Hawkeye_004.JPG), his 'House of M' costume. Although, personally, I still prefer the Thunderbolts one.

Yes, you are right, and thanks for the pic.
Since I hate house of M with a vengeance, I'm not going to be making anything hom related.
It's the Thunderbolts costume I'll be making.

actually, that costume was Pre HOM. he wore something that looked just like that in his 8 ish series and also wore something very much like it during the disassembled run. Different artists had different takes on the color and look but the base was pretty much the same.

Quote from: kyussmanchu on December 25, 2006, 09:24AM
actually, that costume was Pre HOM. he wore something that looked just like that in his 8 ish series and also wore something very much like it during the disassembled run. Different artists had different takes on the color and look but the base was pretty much the same.

He has an "M" on his head. Not an "H". Therefore it's a "house of meh" costume to me. Which is enough that I won't make it.
And I hate the "disassembled" run even more than I hate "house of meh". So if that's where it's from instead, I still won't be making it.

Great job on getting your mesh in game any news on a tut of how you rigged it, with a link or 2 for the tools needed ?

I heard the Alchemy ArtistPack  mentioned  here, in all my extensive searching I can't find a working link for it. Intrinsic Graphics site appears to be under construction and Vicarious Visions have partnered up with them? The majority of info I did find was from 2002 a bit out dated this link  http://www.vvisions.com/community/index.cfm
leads to the same under construction link as all those other articles.

Could someone share one that works, or possibly upload it for us to get ?

The link is actually already on this board, in one of the older threads. One of my firstest posts here, too.
http://marvelmods.com/forum/index.php?topic=8.msg85#msg85

Thanks Noelemahc you just made my Christmas even better :)

For the bump maps: am sifting through PS2 and PSP dev scene materiel, have found a quirky idea: why can't you just make a DXT1 texture using the GREEN channel as a bump map storage? In other words, your RED and BLUE channels are empty and the (grayscale) bump map is saved into the GREEN channel. That's where MUA looks for the bumps in any case, remember?

Quote from: Noelemahc on December 26, 2006, 05:54AM
For the bump maps: am sifting through PS2 and PSP dev scene materiel, have found a quirky idea: why can't you just make a DXT1 texture using the GREEN channel as a bump map storage? In other words, your RED and BLUE channels are empty and the (grayscale) bump map is saved into the GREEN channel. That's where MUA looks for the bumps in any case, remember?

Good thinking, but:
even if you save as a "greyscale" texture,all DXT formats save with three channels, and therefore more than the 8bits the alchemy exporters insist on in 3dsMax.
The onlytypes of file I've managed to export as bumpmaps are 8bit greyscale .bmp, .tga, .jpg files, which the exporter is happy with, the alchemy viewer has no problem with, and which crash the actual game to desktop.
I think that it's going to be a trial and error process, like figuring out the export settings in the first place, and figuring out the weapon segment settings were. Informed guessing definitely helps, it's just that with the bumpmaps problem, there are all the variables of how you save the textures, and all the variables of how you set up Max to export it all, so there's more chances to get one thing wrong, and not even know you are going in the right direction.
Every now and then I go back and play with it again, but it's obviously a lot more fun to make stuff that does work rather than to keep making the same mesh over and over without it ever working, so I don't spend a lot of time on it..like the weapons, when I'm ready to crack it, I will.

I'm just saying, is all.

Theory time: would the nVidia pluck-in even save a file if you chop out the RED and BLUE channels? Photoshop allows forced removal of channels, so...

Oh, and an option 17: PNG? MUA doesn't mind PNGs. That would, of course, be PNG-8, not PNG-24; it would be indexed and will wholly depend on how your exporter processes them. You can even toy around with it being grayscale or green-channeled.

More good thinking, but as yet, .png crashes to desktop too.(and even the alchemy viewer dislikes it).
Chopping out the red and blue channels? Great minds think alike, I just tried it as you must have been typing.
No go. DDS format requires RGB (at least the version of the plugin I'm using does), or converts to 24bit 16.7million colours with the other, earlier, plugin, (which is a different way to say the same thing).
So to summarize:
To date.
DDS format cannot save as 8bit, and so will not export from Max.
Formats that can save in 8bit export OK, but cause the game to CTD.
 

Alright then. Does the exporter mind indexed textures? Y'know, DDS exported into 8 bit -- the nVidia pluck-ins can do that too. Ain't DXT and ain't cost-effective for sizes less than 256x256, but potentially applicable.

Quote from: Noelemahc on December 26, 2006, 06:42AM
Alright then. Does the exporter mind indexed textures? Y'know, DDS exported into 8 bit -- the nVidia pluck-ins can do that too. Ain't DXT and ain't cost-effective for sizes less than 256x256, but potentially applicable.

The only 8bit option the dds plugin gives me is "8bit alpha" (A8), which photoshop saves as OK, but 3dsMax gives an error: "image I/O error:Invalid Image File Header" when I try to assign it as the bump texture.
And the older plugin(5.19) I use in PSP will save in the format "8 bit index", and 3dsMax will let me load this as a bump map........aaannnd then 3dsMax crashes when you try to export.
But I have a feeling you are thinking in the right direction, so I'll keep playing for a few more hours.

Yeah, I suspect the newer pluck-in is just screwy in the head because files saved with it even Photoshop itself cannot process at times, which means all sorts of nasty things.

Still no joy on the bumpmap front.
Meanwhile:
Heres a Swordsman (Thunderbolts version) mesh and skin:
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/tommyboy2002/swordsman_tbolts.jpg)

Can be downloaded here:
http://www.momoshare.com/file.php?file=98e4bb5fc68de36add5d0cd983ef0e01

Okay, how about alternatives to PS and the nVidia stuff?
http://nifelheim.dyndns.org/%7ecocidius/
Here are two pluck-ins for The GIMP, one of which is geared towards normalmaps (which MUA also deals with).
http://registry.gimp.org/plugin?id=7855
And a different, PSP-format-compatible one. (Sadly, only capable of EXPORTING files, and although the author has promised to make a DDS unswizzler, I doubt he will release one soon-ish)

It's just that MUA directly needs DXT textures as normals, and that means we gotta import DDSes. Right?

Thanks, I may give them a try.
Trying to think logically about it:
We know that the game (and therefore Alchemy 3 or whatever it is) supports bumpmaps, and they appear to be seperate files from the colour maps.

We know that I can export Alchemy 2.5 meshes that work in game, but not yet any with bump maps.

We know that XMlegend2 meshes work in MUA, and that these also do not have bumpmaps (or am I wrong? I can't recall seeing any).

We know that the MUA artists probably use fairly standard tools and progs to create the art, ie Photoshop, 3dsmax etc etc, so using similar tools and progs we should be able to get the same results.

We don't know anything about the 3dsMax exporter for alchemy 3 that they use, and it, (or some other in-house only plugin) may determine how, or if, bumpmaps work. For example, the Freedom Force art people had a plugin called NiClod that was never released to the fan community. It was used to create their meshes, which as a result differed from all fan made geometries in a number of ways (alpha layers worked better on the Irrational made meshes, and these meshes converted to FFV3R much better than fan made ones). Nothing the fans could do to their meshes (short of getting their own NiClod plugin writen) would ever make their meshes 100% like the games originals. I mention this as a possibility that using plugins for a retrograde version of the Alchemy engine, there may be some aspects, like bumpmapping that just may not be do-able.
Or it may bejust a case of experimenting a little more with settings. Certainly the documentation that comes with the Alchemy Artists pack I use states that bumpmaps are supported, and it allows them to be part of an exported mesh, so for now I'm being an optimist and thinking "it's just a matter of knowing the appropriate settings". It's just that there are a lot of variables to play with, so it's probably going to take a while.

All of which is a long winded way to say "I doubt they used the Gimp to make this game. And I doubt that we would haveto use it if we have other dds capable paint progs".(Not that I have anything against Gimp. I'm sure it's a great programme).

I'm just saying that the DDS exporters for it follow a different pattern and may (or may not) have better results. Didn't say it'll be better or worse, now did I?

And, for further overclarification: according to the DLL signatures, MUA uses Alchemy 4, XML2 uses Alchemy 3 and all we've got going for us is 2.5. It's a miracle your meshes work in it, a MIRACLE! :D

Unfortunately I can't install the Alchemy plugin since the site is still down, and it requires a generated serial from the Intrinsic site to install. 

Anyways, while looking over the models with texture viewer
I noticed the green map as well. I believe it's normal mapping, very few games now are made with old style bump mapping. The DDS plugin in Photoshop is made  to generate normal maps.
But the various settings always pose problems to us modders. If the devs don't actually make normal mapped models, the real long way ;)  it's the next best thing.

I also saw what I'm pretty sure was an additional specular map in the texture viewer, shiny in all the right places. It could be the Alchemy Plugin supports them too?

If the plugin supports importing .igb? You could try to select the models material with the material picker in Max. It should help to decipher the mapping slots used as well as the base shader.

I'm hoping the site gets back on line soon so I can finally install the Alchemy plug it's just sitting on my desktop.

The 2.5 Alchemy we have may not support specular mapping. It wasn't as widespread as the two-and-a-bit years ago when this version was released. Remember, we're trying to work with a current-gen game using two-gens-ago technology :D

great work

(off topic)
hey tommy what happen to the fr forum?

Well, another five (or is it six) hours sorta wasted trying to get bump-maps to work.
I've now tried EVERY format that Photoshop will save in. Max wont even load half of them. The ones it does load give a CTD in the game.
The bleeding DDS format will not save as 8bit.
The bleeding alchemy exporters will not allow anything except 8bit.
Although I CAN export meshes with bumpmaps, they will not work within the game.

I've also failed at creating a new animation set.Totally.
So really not a good day for me. 

Looking inside the Game.exe, I see that there is a specular map, a normal map and a diffuse map.
So no wonder I couldn't get bumpmaps to work in game.
Since I also know zero about normal maps, time to read up on them too.

Still no joy.
Today I tried a new tactic.
Because I can do an export with a .tga bumpmap, I did this. This on it's own would crash the game. So I took a normalmap.dds and inserted it into the igb in the classic way, thinking the result would be an igb with a DDS normal/bumpmap. And it is, but it also crashes the game.
If they'd just given a little bit more information in their so-called "help" file (like what *&^%ing format to save the bumpmap in), or if there were a way to ask the devs, I wouldn't be wasting my life on this...

You can always ask the devs. The question is, WHO will you ask? Intrisinc is dead, Vicarious Visions have gone web-dead in July '06, and Activision would likely NOT reply. Raven's site hasn't been updated in millenia. Beenox just did the port. Talking to them will only cause problems as they would probably mind us finishing their job for them.

Yes, if there were a forum frequented by any of the dev team, I'd ask.
But I don't know of one.

The official VIP forums don't have a PM function, or a profile one. And the devs had last appeared there before the game was even released, IIRC.

Great Jim Lee Cyclops!  But is there one that will work for XML2?