I thought it would be a good idea for us to discuss what we think are the problems with reading marvel comics. I'm gonna make a list of what I think is wrong with marvel, please comment and add stuff if there's any other thing you don't like.
1. Death and ressurection: I think everyone agree with me on this. I'm not saying you should never kill a character, but if you do, make sure it stays dead! It should be shocking when a character you like dies, even more if it ever comes back to life. but they've been doing that so much that when someone dies we already know it's for just about a year. If a character is too popular to die, cause you know you're gonna have to bring it back, don't kill it. For example: killing colossus isn't cool, cause he's so popular, killing banshee is ok, cause he's well known enough to shock, but hasn't been that popular for a long time, and his daughter has the same power. Plus, some character that we have learned perfectly well to live without, like Magik, came back!
2. Big families: Don't try to make so much money out of a single concept. The X-Men for example. You have: X-Men, Uncanny X-Men, Astonishing X-Men, Excalibur, New X-men, X-Force, X-Factor, New Mutants, Young X-Men, Generation X and so on. In a world with 400 mutants or so, why would you have to have so many x-teams?
3. Too many characters: there are just too many secondary characters that no one cares about. Stop creating so many unoriginal and unimportant characters and make the pre-existing characters more three-dimensional. You end up having many character with similar powers, for example: Human Torch, Sunfire, Sunpyre, Pyro, Starfire, Firefibird, Match...
4. Power changes: How many times do you have to alter a characters power? take scarlet witch or psylocke for example. Make up your minds!
5. Grey Family: ok, you have Jean, then you have Jean's clone, then you have Jean's daughter from an alternate future, then you have Jean's clones son who's from the future, then you have Jean's clones sons clone, then you have Jean's clones sons alternate dimension version. Enough, right?
6: Beyonder: First he's an omnipotent being from another dimension, then he is an incomplete cosmic cube, then he merges with molecule-man and is a complete cosmic cube, then he's actually an inhuman mutant...once again: Make up your minds!
7: Spin-off heroes: That used to be a DC issue, but now it's a marvel one too. How many heroes can you create with a single idea? take Captain America as an example. So, you have Captain America, Bucky, Nomad, Battlestar, US Agent, Jack Flag, Free Spirit, Female Bucky, Josiah X and now Patriot. In fact there is a whole team of mini version of old heroes (Young Avenges) and Araña too (like it wasn't enough to have had 4 spider-women). Can't they come up with original concepts for new heroes?
8: Big events that will change the marvel universe as you know it forever: I like big events, but if you do them all the time they lose their impact and the heroes have no status-quo to go back to. It's great to mess with the status-quo, or simply change it every once in a while, but if you change it so aften that they simply don't exist anymore the events get anti-climatic. And don't get me started on "Brand New Day". Returning a status-quo to what it was 25 years ago sucks big time.
I obviously love Marvel Comics, but they're not perfect. Do you all agree with what I wrote or have something to add?
i don't agree with half of it...
what do you disagree with? I'd love to read your opinion. =)
Well i have no problem with jean's family at all.
I don't think anything is wrong with the x-family or Young Avengers.
Plus it's great that they have a lot of characters in Marvel :]
Quote from: Nowhere Man on March 10, 2009, 08:21PM
1. Death and resurrection:
Every comic company has problems with this though.
they sure do!
young avengers is actually very well written...what bugs me is that they are so similar in power and style to the older heroes. they could have tried to make them a little more different.
as to the grey family, half this number would be the ideal, having the clone have a kid who has a clone and an alternate reality version is just too much, in my opinion.
Quote from: Nowhere Man on March 10, 2009, 08:21PM
7: Spin-off heroes
my favourite character is a spin-off, or rather a parady of a DC character, by that i mean deadpool
well yeah your right about that last guy
I have to add something: Why on Earth (or should I say, why on Asgard:rofl:) did they do Norse gods and Goddesses? Why? Why! That is un-origanal, like you say about other heroes, Nowhere Man.
I definitly disagree with that. I think it's a lot of fun to use characters that already exist in everybodys mind and play with them. Thor is actually my favourite Marvel hero.
Quote from: Nowhere Man on March 13, 2009, 12:27AM
I definitly disagree with that. I think it's a lot of fun to use characters that already exist in everybodys mind and play with them. Thor is actually my favourite Marvel hero.
Well, ok. I have to admit I
do like Thor and Loki. But still... If you think about it, it
is kinda weird.
if you really stop to think about it every single super-hero comic book is very weird! but I guess people like us just like using our imagination to the fullest =P
Quotemy favourite character is a spin-off, or rather a parady of a DC character, by that i mean deadpool
Deadpool rocks! he's one of the best parodies! I'm not saying you should never do spin-offs. I love She-Hulk and Miss Marvel (who used to be a spin-off of Cap Marvel). I'm just saying they're overdoing it...a LOT! just read that Cap America example I wrote.
1. I agree, comic deaths are a joke now, we know someone will eventually bring them back (but i cant agree on the Magik comment, i love my Magik :))
2. I dont mind so many teams being around, i do mind so many team comics out, cause then i gotta check them out and waste my money on the bad ones (Young X-Men, Claremont's Exiles).
4. Power changes are alright when its an evolution of a character, for example early Moonstar were it kept growing and extending. But when its not its just a little stupid, how did Psylocke get TK powers from Jean?
5. I love everything Grey and Summers, so for me the more the better :)
6. The Beyonder thing was a mess, i dont know why they made him an inhuman. (almost as bad as the whole Xorn thing)
8. I agree on that one, im just glad the X-Men for the most part stay out of the main marvel big events.
Quote from: nodoubt_jr on March 14, 2009, 12:37PMhow did Psylocke get TK powers from Jean?
that was never explained, people just assume it had something to do with the residual phoenix force but your guess is as good as any.
Quote from: nodoubt_jr on March 14, 2009, 12:37PM5. I love everything Grey and Summers, so for me the more the better :)
It must have been really hard for you to see the Shi'ar killing most of them =P
Quote from: Nowhere Man on March 14, 2009, 01:25PM
It must have been really hard for you to see the Shi'ar killing most of them =P
Yes, yes it was. But between cloning, alternate dimensions/futures and time travel, im sure we will see some more Greys (and hopefully more Summers too).
Quote from: piutebob on March 11, 2009, 04:42PM
I have to add something: Why on Earth (or should I say, why on Asgard:rofl:) did they do Norse gods and Goddesses? Why? Why! That is un-origanal, like you say about other heroes, Nowhere Man.
I saw once an interview where Stan Lee explained how he and Kirby created Thor. They wanted a character that was stronger than Hulk, but Hulk was supposed to be the strongest man there is. So they decided to go with a god. They went with Asgardians because they had a mythology as deep as Romans or Greeks, but weren't as known.
Also, keep in mind that Thor was one of the first (if not the first) god/superhero. At the time it was probably hailed as the craziest and most original idea ever. You know how in the old myths, the god's came down and meddle with mortal affairs? Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were the first people to bring them back in modern times. As far as I know, every prior literary work that included old gods was set in the ancient times (think Midsummer Night's Dream, for example). That, my friends, is something that just someone really talented could come up with. And I say that with all my (non-existant) degrees in literature and ancient history.
Also, I wouldn't disregard the possibility that Norse mythology is much better known now because of Marvel's Thor!
Quote from: Gevth on March 15, 2009, 09:37PM
I saw once an interview where Stan Lee explained how he and Kirby created Thor. They wanted a character that was stronger than Hulk, but Hulk was supposed to be the strongest man there is. So they decided to go with a god. They went with Asgardians because they had a mythology as deep as Romans or Greeks, but weren't as known.
Also, keep in mind that Thor was one of the first (if not the first) god/superhero. At the time it was probably hailed as the craziest and most original idea ever. You know how in the old myths, the god's came down and meddle with mortal affairs? Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were the first people to bring them back in modern times. As far as I know, every prior literary work that included old gods was set in the ancient times (think Midsummer Night's Dream, for example). That, my friends, is something that just someone really talented could come up with. And I say that with all my (non-existant) degrees in literature and ancient history.
Also, I wouldn't disregard the possibility that Norse mythology is much better known now because of Marvel's Thor!
not to mention that stories have been re-told for millions of years, Thor is just Stan Lee and Jack Kirby's re-telling of Norse mythology
Quote from: Shauny7488 on March 16, 2009, 01:10AM
not to mention that stories have been re-told for millions of years, Thor is just Stan Lee and Jack Kirby's re-telling of Norse mythology
Millions of years??? Ah. Well, Marvel
could be a little more decent. Other then that, they do fine!
Quote from: Shauny7488 on March 16, 2009, 01:10AM
not to mention that stories have been re-told for millions of years, Thor is just Stan Lee and Jack Kirby's re-telling of Norse mythology
Millions? Mon ami, now your over-exaggerating this whole thing.
cavemen told stories no? thats millions of years...
since when did this thread turn into a debate about prehistory? even if you think i got my history wrong you get what my point is.
Please stay on topic.
My apologies. Back on topic then.
Quote from: Shauny7488 on March 16, 2009, 01:10AM
not to mention that stories have been re-told for millions of years, Thor is just Stan Lee and Jack Kirby's re-telling of Norse mythology
Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but if it is just a re-telling, its a pretty good one.
it's more than re-telling, it's different and more elaborate than the actuall norse mythology. if you research it you'll see that most norse mythology stories are very confusing and have had several interpretations. Marvels norse mythology is a lot more organized and considering that dozens of people have been writing it for almost fifty years, i'd say there's already a lot more to it.
PS: the norse civilization only started existing around the 8th century, so stories about Thor & company aren't much older than that. But if you consider the earlier deities that later became knows as gods with different names in different mythologies (like Thor, Zeus, Ukko...) they might be originated at the same time as modern humans. Still it's only about 200.000 years, not millions.
Quote from: Nowhere Man on March 17, 2009, 01:22PMUkko...
Holy batpole. You really have researched. At least norse mythology makes more interesting comics than Kalevala and old finnish gods ("Ukko" rose to our skies sometime around 2400BC) ever would, hehe.
First of all, I must say that I registered recently, but I've been using the mods for more than an year.
Second of all, english is not my first language so I apologize for any misspelling or gramatical errors.
On topic:
1. 100% agreed.
2. Same as nodoubt_jr. I only mind if there's too much team comics coming out
3. I agree with the "same powers" part, but not with the rest.
4. I'm completely OK with power changes, as long as it is well explained or at least there's a plot revolving around someone's sudden mystery change of powers..
5. I would say that the problem is a little wider. I think it's too cheap to just throw in a bunch of characters saying "I'm from a distant future/alternate reality and I came here to keep my reality from happening".
6. Agreed.
7. The Young Avengers are really cheap. As I said on 5, I don't care for different time/reality heroes.
8. Now that you mentioned it, they ARE exagerating a bit..
"Thor's problem". As Gevth mentioned, at the time it was pretty original so I don't have a problem with that.
PS: Dihan, I love your mods. They made me return to the MUA(modding) world after a couple of months of absence :D
Quote5. I would say that the problem is a little wider. I think it's too cheap to just throw in a bunch of characters saying "I'm from a distant future/alternate reality and I came here to keep my reality from happening".
VERY well said!!!
what do u mean by
the Young Avengers are cheap..
One thing that drives me crazy is that, like with Blade, he has all the cool abilities of a vampire, but none of their weaknesses. He should have to deal with something that makes things difficult, like staying out of the sun cause he'll melt, or something.
What about the fact that they think they are too good for everyone else? (Thor is especially Pompous [I like to pick on Thor, it seems])
I don't like how they create characters and then kill them off in a way which seems random.
1) Dust was "killed" because of her glass arm. She was brought back by Ink, though.
2) Hellion and Surge had been teleported away after being injected with something, supposedly to blow up or something. Survival is doubtful.
3) Meltdown was killed by the Sapien League
4) Pixie is now a demon in Limbo
5) Shadowcat is in that stupid bullet thing
I like the New X-Men. I don't want any more to be killed off!
(http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/30852/741664-xforce013_page_2_super.jpg)
I still have hope for Hellion and Surge, Cyclops knows were they went and said he would send someone to save them. Even though Cyclops is a lot "darker" now i still think he wouldnt just let them die (lol, but with these writers you never know, they love killing of the new x-men kids). Meltdown is gone in my opinion, ive read online that some people think X-Force may come back just in time to stop the Leper Queen from killing her or at least maybe heal Meltdown in some way. I doubt that. The whole Pixie thing was kind of funny, no one on the team seemed to have any problems with leaving her in Limbo and when they get back no one there seems to notice Pixie didnt come back, lol, poor Pixie. Im sure she can get back to earth with her own teleport spell thing. Oh well im sure eventually any of these characters that died will somehow come back.