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Author Topic: The Coming Out Story of Iceman  (Read 634 times)

Offline Lightning249539

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The Coming Out Story of Iceman
« on: November 26, 2018, 12:21am »
What are your thoughts on Iceman coming out and him having his own comic book series?? Personally, He inspired me to become comfortable with my sexuality (I'm gay). Storm is my #1 favorite Xmen and Marvel character, however, Iceman has been one of the many Xmen characters I liked too. :storm:

Offline BaconWizard17

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Re: The Coming Out Story of Iceman
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2018, 07:58am »
Iím not sure how I feel about iceman being gay. While Iím fully supportive of gay characters in comic books, Iím just not sure if it really makes sense to make iceman gay, considering how heís always been a ladiesí man. I think itís really neat that he got his own comic though. More X-Men characters deserve solo comic series.

Offline Outsider

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Re: The Coming Out Story of Iceman
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2018, 01:39pm »
Although his solo series is about the time-displaced younger Iceman, as opposed to the original, I share BaconWizard's sentiments. I don't mind gay characters in comics, but I personally don't think one should change the orientation of a long-time already-established character. Iceman throughout the years was known in the comics as a heavy flirt to women. This is true in the X-Men animated series where Iceman shared his romantic history with Lorna Dane (Polaris). This is also true even in Marvel Ultimate Alliance, where he talks at the Sanctum Santorum about how Black Widow is really hot, or his reactions when he is affected by Spider-Woman's pheromones in the ending track. In fact, he flirted with Magma in the first X-Men Legends game, and Jean Grey told her to keep an eye on him, as he is a "real charmer." Furthermore, the late great Stan Lee said that he created Iceman to be "like the Human Torch, but with ice." (It's written on the back of an Iceman trading card I have somewhere.) So, to change him now seems... I can't find the word for it. Is it possible that he's bisexual and likes both? (If so, then his history still makes sense to some extent.)

I think they should have introduced new heroes who just so happen to be gay or change the orientation of a character whose history doesn't contradict all that we've been shown -- like when Rictor, Shatterstar, and Wiccan came out as gay. Unlike with Iceman, those characters' histories don't suggest that they were straight, so it was fine. Having said all that, perhaps Iceman's new solo series will be a good read.

« Last Edit: November 26, 2018, 01:59pm by Outsider »

Offline BaconWizard17

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Re: The Coming Out Story of Iceman
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2018, 02:45pm »
Although his solo series is about the time-displaced younger Iceman, as opposed to the original

The solo series is about the adult iceman from the main universe. The time-displaced younger iceman was the one featured in X-Men Blue

I do agree that if Marvel wanted to change the sexual orientation of a character, they should chose someone whose sexuality is less defined or perhaps not defined at all. I'm really not a fan of when they heavily alter a long-standing and popular character to be something that contradicts years of written history.

Offline Ceamonks890

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Re: The Coming Out Story of Iceman
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2018, 03:00am »
From my perspective, this drastic character alteration was done more for shallow virtue signalling, than anything which would make for an interesting narrative direction to take. To these amateurish new writers, decades of continuity mean literally nothing to them if it means they can insert propaganda and/or whatever social agenda they wish to dish out that week down consumers' throats.

Just like nonsensically devolving Jennifer Walters from a charmingly hilarious attractive woman with her own shtick into a clone of Savage Hulk, removing Deadpool's extended cast and emotional depth for the sake of pumping out as many series with his likeness as possible(because of internet meme popularity), turning Captain America into a literal Nazi, scrapping classic Nick Fury permanently for the Samuel Jackson version of the Ultimate universe('cause MCU), Carol Danvers no longer being a badass with actual personality... I could be here all day.

I'm all for character overhauls if the ideas behind them are sound(such as the Joe Fixit and Merged personas for the Hulk during Peter David's run or Peter Parker and Mary-Jane Watson being married among others). But if you're not smart enough to stop and properly plan everything correctly in advance, than expect backlash on a tremendous scale.

The fact that not just Marvel(but DC, Image, Dark Horse etc), engage in this disgusting behavior and continually ignore the outcry from fans, simply proves to me how above-it-all and untouchable they seem to think they are.

And as a consumer, I can't help but feel disheartened that an industry I've loved for the past 20 years, don't want people like me around(merely due to wanting genuinely good timeless stories with three-dimensional characters to read and not literal shovelware, which will become dated in a year or two).
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 03:03am by Ceamonks890 »

Offline Lightning249539

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Re: The Coming Out Story of Iceman
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2018, 05:24pm »
Although his solo series is about the time-displaced younger Iceman, as opposed to the original, I share BaconWizard's sentiments. I don't mind gay characters in comics, but I personally don't think one should change the orientation of a long-time already-established character. Iceman throughout the years was known in the comics as a heavy flirt to women. This is true in the X-Men animated series where Iceman shared his romantic history with Lorna Dane (Polaris). This is also true even in Marvel Ultimate Alliance, where he talks at the Sanctum Santorum about how Black Widow is really hot, or his reactions when he is affected by Spider-Woman's pheromones in the ending track. In fact, he flirted with Magma in the first X-Men Legends game, and Jean Grey told her to keep an eye on him, as he is a "real charmer." Furthermore, the late great Stan Lee said that he created Iceman to be "like the Human Torch, but with ice." (It's written on the back of an Iceman trading card I have somewhere.) So, to change him now seems... I can't find the word for it. Is it possible that he's bisexual and likes both? (If so, then his history still makes sense to some extent.)

I think they should have introduced new heroes who just so happen to be gay or change the orientation of a character whose history doesn't contradict all that we've been shown -- like when Rictor, Shatterstar, and Wiccan came out as gay. Unlike with Iceman, those characters' histories don't suggest that they were straight, so it was fine. Having said all that, perhaps Iceman's new solo series will be a good read.

I agree. They could've made his character at least bisexual but they did explain that there were some hints to his sexuality in an old comic book issue. :storm:
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 05:12am by Lightning249539 »

Offline Jaybird

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Re: The Coming Out Story of Iceman
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2018, 01:48pm »
I don't mind iceman getting his own comic, but if they just wanted to tell a story about a gay x-man why not anole. He's an established character who hasn't had the spotlight shined on him in a while. I think that would be neat.

Offline Lightning249539

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Re: The Coming Out Story of Iceman
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2018, 05:12am »
I don't mind iceman getting his own comic, but if they just wanted to tell a story about a gay x-man why not anole. He's an established character who hasn't had the spotlight shined on him in a while. I think that would be neat.

I feel like right now we are having mix feelings about him coming out, however, we will soon accept it and it'll be normal for us in the next few years. :storm:

Offline Lightning249539

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Re: The Coming Out Story of Iceman
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2018, 05:14am »
Imagine them making an Xmen Legends 3 in the next few years... Iceman will most likely be gay in the game now. :storm:

Offline Midnightphoenix

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Re: The Coming Out Story of Iceman
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2018, 04:59pm »
I personally loved that he came out in the comics. While Bobby was always kind of a "ladies man" in the past, he never really had all that much luck with women in general. So him coming out actually makes a lot of sense in my opinion, not to mention that there is a particular scene with Bobby and his father in a comic from years back that almost seems to foreshadow him being gay. And the relationship he has with his parents seems to fit a lot of real life narratives where you don't feel like your family accepts you fully or that they won't accept you if you are anything different then what they want you to be. So him trying to hide his sexuality for the sake of feeling accepted and also being confused makes a lot of sense.

In all honesty it really doesn't change his character at all, he is still the same person and it now gives LGBT people another character to look up too. I always liked Iceman and him coming out makes me like him even more because I feel like he is a character I can relate too even more now.


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Offline nickjustint

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Re: The Coming Out Story of Iceman
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2018, 05:21pm »
I really don't think its a big deal, the only substantial thing people who are against it can offer is 'But he's a ladies man, he flirted with women once!" I don't think people who take this stance have any clue or experience with how people who are deeply closeted can operate. Its very common in real life for someone who is closeted to over compensate by being flirtatious with women.

I think out of a lot of male characters it works with Iceman, he has NO significant or iconic romances in the comics and the only one people offered is that he dated Shadowcat at one point, he has no attachments in that regard that are essential parts of his character.
It's not like they made Cyclops gay all of a sudden, because I would draw the line at that, as his relationships are a big part of defining his character. Bobby? Not so much.

I also hear a talking point from people about how they shouldn't have made an existing character gay and instead made new characters who are gay.
But these are the same people who will cry about SJW if Marvel were to introduce a brand new prominent gay character. So which one is it? You can't have it both ways. They won't be able to win with a certain set of people no matter what.

Do I think the character was intended to be gay on creation? No. But why would a character even be considered in being created as gay in the 1960s, characters can develop and be added to as times go by, and as the time changes. When Stan Lee heard about the change, he stated that he doesn't care what they do to the character as long as the stories are good. So there you have it, he doesn't care that much and neither should we.

At the end of the day there have been a lot of worse character retcons and arcs that have damaged popular characters a lot more that people have accepted but apparently a character coming out as gay is where they draw the line.

« Last Edit: December 08, 2018, 05:36pm by nickjustint »

Offline Lightning249539

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Re: The Coming Out Story of Iceman
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2018, 09:08am »
I personally loved that he came out in the comics. While Bobby was always kind of a "ladies man" in the past, he never really had all that much luck with women in general. So him coming out actually makes a lot of sense in my opinion, not to mention that there is a particular scene with Bobby and his father in a comic from years back that almost seems to foreshadow him being gay. And the relationship he has with his parents seems to fit a lot of real life narratives where you don't feel like your family accepts you fully or that they won't accept you if you are anything different then what they want you to be. So him trying to hide his sexuality for the sake of feeling accepted and also being confused makes a lot of sense.

In all honesty it really doesn't change his character at all, he is still the same person and it now gives LGBT people another character to look up too. I always liked Iceman and him coming out makes me like him even more because I feel like he is a character I can relate too even more now.

Everything you said, I absolutely agree! Iceman is definitely my second Marvel/Xmen character now that he has come out because I can relate to him so much. :storm:

Offline Lightning249539

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Re: The Coming Out Story of Iceman
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2018, 09:17am »
I really don't think its a big deal, the only substantial thing people who are against it can offer is 'But he's a ladies man, he flirted with women once!" I don't think people who take this stance have any clue or experience with how people who are deeply closeted can operate. Its very common in real life for someone who is closeted to over compensate by being flirtatious with women.

I think out of a lot of male characters it works with Iceman, he has NO significant or iconic romances in the comics and the only one people offered is that he dated Shadowcat at one point, he has no attachments in that regard that are essential parts of his character.
It's not like they made Cyclops gay all of a sudden, because I would draw the line at that, as his relationships are a big part of defining his character. Bobby? Not so much.

I also hear a talking point from people about how they shouldn't have made an existing character gay and instead made new characters who are gay.
But these are the same people who will cry about SJW if Marvel were to introduce a brand new prominent gay character. So which one is it? You can't have it both ways. They won't be able to win with a certain set of people no matter what.

Do I think the character was intended to be gay on creation? No. But why would a character even be considered in being created as gay in the 1960s, characters can develop and be added to as times go by, and as the time changes. When Stan Lee heard about the change, he stated that he doesn't care what they do to the character as long as the stories are good. So there you have it, he doesn't care that much and neither should we.

At the end of the day there have been a lot of worse character retcons and arcs that have damaged popular characters a lot more that people have accepted but apparently a character coming out as gay is where they draw the line.

I agree. :storm:

Offline Lightning249539

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Re: The Coming Out Story of Iceman
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2018, 09:18am »
Going back to Midnight's response here is the story about hinting Iceman was gay.

https://www.tor.com/2015/04/23/iceman-gay-coming-out/

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Offline Outsider

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Re: The Coming Out Story of Iceman
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2018, 09:33am »
he has NO significant or iconic romances in the comics and the only one people offered is that he dated Shadowcat at one point, he has no attachments in that regard that are essential parts of his character.

Iceman has had several (albeit failed) relationships with women, starting with Opal Tanaka, and including Rogue and the aforementioned Lorna Dane (Polaris). In the comics, after the trauma she sustained out in Genosha, Iceman admitted that he still had feelings for her and they became a couple. It didn't last long, but it counts, and Iceman has been well-documented in the past as long having romantic feelings for Polaris, but at first she didn't share his feelings, as she was attracted to Havok. This is why I say it would have made more sense if he came out as bisexual (which is still gay). This way, he still comes out and it doesn't completely retcon all that was read. In fact, Lorna was a key part of his character (more so than Shadowcat) that when it was revealed that he was gay, the writer made sure that Lorna was in the conversation.
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Nonetheless, what's done is done. No point crying over spilled milk. It's already been revealed since 2015 that he's gay, and I agree that it doesn't change the fact that he's an awesome character. However, new characters who are gay can still reach the level of prominence that Iceman is at if there is good writing involved. It was done for the Latino community in introducing Miles Morales, a half-black, half-Latino Spider-Man. At first, there was an uproar by some who said "Who the hell is this? Peter Parker will always be Spider-Man!" But that didn't stop Marvel. Eventually, Miles rose to prominence and became one of the most popular characters in Marvel -- even to this day. So, you can make a new character and still get the point across. The same can be done for the LGBTQ community. Of course some people will complain, but it won't change anything. Eventually, it will be accepted in time.


I feel like right now we are having mix feelings about him coming out, however, we will soon accept it and it'll be normal for us in the next few years. :storm:

That is correct. As I've said before, it doesn't matter if Iceman is gay. Heck, I'll share with you all that my brother is gay. It took him many years before he finally came out of the closet. Sure, my family and I were initially shocked, but we didn't shun him away. We accepted him, as it doesn't change that he's still family. He's still the same guy -- and I proudly say he's still my brother. People will always complain about something, as you can't please everyone. When my Phantom Four were released, one critic complained that everything had a religious connotation to it, but I wouldn't let that change the story. Some people will complain no matter what. But when it's all said and done, it will eventually be accepted.

On a related note, I think it's messed up that Jean Grey read Iceman's mind and forced him to reveal that he was gay. He should have came out of the closet when he was ready. Oh, the prying of telepaths... There should be a code of ethics with heroes when reading someone's mind, as just because one has the ability to read someone's mind, doesn't mean that it's their business to know.