The VS Game

[Sabra]

That's like saying: "Jubilee VS Living Tribunal"
xD

Silver Surfer without a second of doubt.


Jean Grey (Before she became one with the phoenix) VS Charles Xavier.

[Nowhere Man]

still jean. even though xavier is a more powerful telepath, jean is skilled enough to protect her mind for the one second she needs to just take care of him via tk, to which he is completely defenseless.

Synch vs Absorbing Man

[MarvelFan12345]

Hmm have to go with Synch. (and btw Jean has been said to be the most powerful telepath on the world, so more than Xavier)
Wolfsbane vs Feral vs Hepzibah.
Attack of the cats and wolves

[Nowhere Man]

I'd say wolfsbane

and jean has more raw power, but xavier is far more experienced. one good comparison is like when emma defeated rachel, who's an omega lvl mutant as well. she beat rach cause she's more skilled. oh, and nate is the most powerful telepath in the world. he once defeated exodus who was at his most powerful at the time and was in control of a battle against all x-men and avengers, including jean, and had her completely contained and unconscious inside a tk field. Nate showed up and defeated him in seconds.

Arachne vs Tigra

[MarvelFan12345]

I agree Xavier is more experienced. And when was Nate called the most powerful. Recently in Fraction's UXM Cyclops said Jean was the most powerful. She is Nate's mother and the Phoenix after all. And at the time 90s Jean was not as powerful or skilled (she focused more on tp in the Revolution period)

[Nowhere Man]

that's exactly what I said. b4 phoenix. you gotta be able to separate the two. they may be the same now, but it wasn't always like that, and that's what i'm talking about. a phoenixless Jean, who in tp was weaker than Xavier, Emma, Shadow King, Exodus and specially Nate.

Edit: noone answered my duel

[MarvelFan12345]

(Sorry, have it now.) Arachhne, doesn't her webbing have psionic things to it?

Spider-Woman vs Arachne vs Mattie Franklin vs Spider-Girl
Attack of the Spider-Women

Yes but current Jean is the Phoenix. It started off as they being the same person. Then retconned it later to be separate. Morrison retconned the retcon by tying them together once more. The entire marvel universe pretty much considers Jean to have been the Dark Phoenix in the DPS. In the Classic X-Men story created in the 90s the Phoenix and Jean were called separate yet Death said the Phoenix powers were rightfully Jean's. Same person now and current is technically the canon version.

If Nate was called the most powerful telepath right now in current times then I can give you that but in the 90s I can't because all of Marvel is much different than it was before. And it was never said that Jean was less powerful than Emma, Shadow King, and Exodus. Psylocke beat Shadow King and Jean is more powerful than her but as Psylocke trapped him maybe I can give you Shadow King. Same with Exodus. But Jean has performed stuns that they haven't shown, all three. Maybe Shadow King and Exodus can do them but I don't think Emma can. Jean managed to go past Jugg's helmet at Marvel Girl levels and be shielded from Onslaught at full power. She also broke Sinister's psychic cages which repressed psychic powers. Of course those three have never been in those situations but it shows some very high psychic power that others have not shown in other but perhaps similar situations. Plus in What If Astonishing a "Phoenix-Less" Jean managed to beat Emma who had fractions of the Phoenix (this What_If never had Jean and the Phoenix bonded as one. They remain separate as it was in the 80s-90s). And while Emma may not hold back, Jean wouldn't either. She hasn't held back when needed too and we've seen Jean's fiery temper. I'm not trying to deny the above people's powers but 90s Jean would have a shot against Shadow King and Exodus. Against Emma, Emma would gave a big fight and be a challenge but 90s Jean would beat her even in only tp)

And you have to think of Jean 90s as not in full power. Jean fully merged with the Phoenix is as that is what it was meant to be. The Phoenix isn't just using her as a host but it is Jean. In Endsong Jean was able to perform powerful stunts which the Phoenix was suprised she could do. Jean said it was because she was her (Phoenix). Morrison made it like the original story that the Phoenix was an extension of Jean's true and full power. At White Phoenix Level do you think Jean would be weaker than Nate or Exodus. (I personally don't like the White Phoenix level as it is far too overpowered and adds another fault to the character, but like the costume and what it symbolizes)

I don't really want to sound like the obsessed Jean fanboy (although I know I do sound like it so I doubt this means anything) but so far I've been trying to stick with the comic facts. I can get pics too for actual prrof because I have them). Anyway this would be better on a Jean thread, and this is Vs unless Nowhere Man wants to continue here as he is very smart and I would not be surpised at all if he find something.

[Nowhere Man]

Spider-Woman, for sure, she has martial arts training and energy blasts. arachne's webbing is no match for that.

Dude, she may had the right to use Phoenix's power, but she didn't. There is certainly a difference as to what has been written for Jean with and without phoenix powers. and without it she got her ass handed to her by several people even less powerful than her. When Onslaugh showed up he handpicked the two most powerful mutants in the world to absorb: Nate and Franklin. Nate has fought Silver Sufer one on one using only his mutant powers. He was genetically developed by Mister Sinister to be the only person in the world capable of destroying the most powerful version of Apocalypse there is. He was the centerpiece in the Twelve saga, as the only one who could handle all the powers of all the 12 (including jean's) so that Apocalypse could then absorb it. Mr. Fantastic has said that he calculated that at one time during the 90's Nate's powers were so great that he was releasing the same amount of energy as the Dark Phoenix. That using ONLY his mutant powers. That being said, it's clear that Nate is indeed the most powerful telepath and telekinetic in the world, if not the universe. And that's without mentioning that this all happened b4 he was 18, so he still has a lot to develop. Jean may be almighty with phoenix powers, but counting solely on her mutation she's waaaaay behing Nate and has stated right up to the point till she started developing her phoenix powers again that she was no match for Xavier. JEAN stated that. you think you know better than her?

Captain Britain vs Guardian (james hudson)

[whiteking]

Captain Britain.

Magneto vs Xavier

that's exactly what I said. b4 phoenix. you gotta be able to separate the two. they may be the same now, but it wasn't always like that, and that's what i'm talking about. a phoenixless Jean, who in tp was weaker than Xavier, Emma, Shadow King, Exodus and specially Nate.

Edit: noone answered my duel

Because I'm pretty much with you, Phoenix less Jean has less skills in TP than all of those who you posted...

Arachhne, doesn't her webbing have psionic things to it?
Spider-Woman vs Arachne

Yes but current Jean is the Phoenix. It started off as they being the same. Then retconned it later to be separate. Morrison retconned the retcon by tying them together once more. The entire marvel universe pretty much considers Jean to have been the Dark Phoenix in the DPS. In the Classic X-Men story created in the 90s the Phoenix and Jean were called separate yet Death said the Phoenix powers were rightfully Jean's. Same person now and current is technically the canon version.

If Nate was called the most powerful telepath right now in current times then I can give you that but in the 90s I can't because all of Marvel is much different than it was before. And it was never said that Jean was less powerful than Emma, Shadow King, and Exodus. Psylocke beat Shadow King and Jean is more powerful than her but as Psylocke trapped him maybe I can give you Shadow King. Same with Exodus. But Jean has performed stuns that they haven't shown, all three. Maybe Shadow King and Exodus can do them but I don't think Emma can. She managed to go past Jugg's helmet at Marvel Girl levels and be shielded from Onslaught at full power. She also broke Sinister's psychic cages which repressed psychic powers. Plus in What If Astonishing a "Phoenix-Less" Jean managed to beat Emma who had fractions of the Phoenix. And while Emma may not hold back, Jean wouldn't either. She hasn't held back when needed too and we've seen Jean's fiery temper.

And you have to think of Jean 90s as not in full power. Jean fully merged with the Phoenix is as that is what it was meant to be. The Phoenix isn't just using her as a host but it is Jean. In Endsong Jean was able to perform powerful stunts which the Phoenix was suprised she could do. Jean said it was because she was the Phoenix. Morrison made it like the original story that the Phoenix was an extension of Jean's true and full power.

Your arguments are always the same, which, excuse me, but it's driving me crazy, yes she is the Phoenix now, but as Nowhere man pointed, it wasn't always like that. No matter how many retcons are, or will be, she was NOT the Phoenix before, call it a mistake on the continuity, an error by an autor, or what ever you want, but if you look carefully in her bio, even if the Phoenix is Jean now, this entity is volatile as a teenager, she's here, she's out, she's gone and she comeback. Any time when Jean never mannifested the Phoenix, like 90's Jean, is technically Phoenix-less so please I beg to your intelligence...
Oh and by the way, yes Emma has pretty much the same TP skills or even more than Jean, I already showed you an scan where Morrison state that Jean and Emma has the same chances to win a tp battle (no more powers, since when you perform a psychic battle you can't use your other powers, Emma/Dust vs Exodus someone?)
The only reason of why Morrison listed Jean as the winner is because the growing Phoenix powers during his run, without Phoenix, Emma, Xavier, Exodus and even Psylocke has enough chances to beat her...
Even in Morrison era, she was not the Phoenix (fully control over it) until the last issues...


And to end this stupid discussion about Jean's powers (which again is taking the whole forum and giving to all the haters more reasons to despise her) Let me sugest something:

Jean Marvel Girl (Phoenix less)
Jean Hellfire (Phoenix)
Jean after hellfire/Revolution/90's (Phoenix less)
Morrsion Jean first half (Phoenix-less/no complete control over it)
Morrison Jean final moments (Phoenix)
Jean Endsong (Phoenix less)
Jean after Endsong (Full Phoenix)

Use this everytime you want to put a fight with Jean so the whole debate about her ridiculous amount of power will be avoided. Thank you.

[MarvelFan12345]

Magneto (helmet saves him after that Magneto likely crushes Xavier) if he has no helmet then of course Xavier
All 5 Original Cuckoos vs X-23, Dust, Pixie

Remember that your stuff was all in the 90s. None of it goes to the current day. Nate would beat 90s Jean. There is no doubt about that. But Jean still hasn't gone to full level. Keep in mind that Jean never thought she and the Phoenix would become one in the 90s. This was all before Morrison retconning the retcon. And going with the original Phoenix story which is what marvel is going by now Jean was the DP. In Xavier's psychic duel with Jean, Xavier won but he admits he only did because Jean's good side was helping him. Recently Jean was announced as the most powerful telepath in current days. If Jean had never become one with the Phoenix and still at 90s levels then yes Nate would beat her. Xavier would beat her. IMO Exodus and Shadow King may be her level or a little bit more as their rivals are more powerful than her (Nate and Xavier). But you are going by 90s levels. When Jean was not at full power. You may as well say 60s Jean vs Nate because she isn't at full level then either. Jean has evolved in power and the Pheonix' powers are hers rightfully.

And I suppose you are right Whiteking. Current continuity doesn't make complete sense and that could take out a large portion of my proof. But she still has the edge. Remember that Morrison said that they were "almost" evenly matched. Almost. And she did have the Phoenix within her and even the raptor manifested but she didn't truly manifest the Phoenix until Wolverine killed her.

Anyway this argument has no point. I'm not going to change my mind and neither will you, so your right this arguement should end. I see why people could hate Jean for all of fanboys and argument stuff. You all have good points which can prove me wrong in some parts. And you are also right that this arguement is annoying. Even I'm sick of it but I'm also annoyed as people don't see that Jean's powerful moments before she and the Phoenix became one which many other tps could or likely couldn't be able to do and how Phoenix/Jean is the current Jean.

[Nowhere Man]

Cuckoos

One simple way to think about it is: using only her mutant powers or her phoenix powers as well? that way, no matter if has right or access to the phoenix or not it's clear that only her mutation counts.

Justice vs Firestar (don't you just love it when couples fight? LOL)

[MarvelFan12345]

Currently the Cuckoos don't have the Phoenix fragments anymore but as 2 of them are dead this isn't really current. Also didn't their hearts keep them from using any of the Phoenix's powers?
Hmm tk vs a fire mutant. I have to go with Firestar but if Justice has molecular tk then him.
Vindicator vs Valkyrie

[mj fan]

Valkyrie
Captain America and Elektra vs Iron Fist and Dardevil

[MarvelFan12345]

Captain America and Elektra
Silver Savage vs Hulk

[Nowhere Man]

Silver Savage

Dr Strange vs Blackbolt