The official VV vs. Raven fighting thread

[DJay Saint]

Raven > VV.

That is all.

[BLaw]

lol XD

I hate the plastiqueness from the pics/vids I've seen. Only Carnage seemes non-plastic to meh.

Raven 4 XML3. And please in coop with n_space, those guys deserve restecp XD

[MarvelFan12345]

VV = Raven
Both are good and have their faults

[nodoubt_jr]

Good thread, now maybe we can keep the fighting in here.

I havent played the game but from vidoes ive seen the PS3/360 version looks like MUA1, not much of a difference IMO. Some of the new changes suck and some of the skins are just ugly, but other than that it looks like i'll enjoy.

Now if it was a fight between VV and N-Space, i would give it to n-space since from the videos ive seen its a lot closer to MUA1 and i think i would enjoy it more.

[MarvelFan12345]

I had a feeling you would like the Ps2 version better.

[nodoubt_jr]

I had a feeling you would like the Ps2 version better.

i look at the videos and it feels like a sequel to MUA1, the ps3/xbox version looks like a different game based on MUA (lol does that make sense?). Also ive been playing around with the ps2 files and the new characters and so far i really like all of them.

if i had both consoles i would get both games, they have enough differences for me to enjoy them as two different games.

[MarvelFan12345]

i look at the videos and it feels like a sequel to MUA1, the ps3/xbox version looks like a different game based on MUA (lol does that make sense?). Also ive been playing around with the ps2 files and the new characters and so far i really like all of them.

if i had both consoles i would get both games, they have enough differences for me to enjoy them as two different games.

Yeah MUAII feels more like a different game maybe, so I enjoy both but my fav from both would be the 360 version

[Teancum]

It's not a 100% fair fight since Raven has had a long history of making epic games, whereas this is really Vicarious Visions' freshman year with the big guys.  Sure, they've done tons of ports and DS games, but nothing like this.

• Visually MUA2 looks for the most part, amazing.  It's definitely up with the next-gen games out there, whereas MUA1 next-gen was just a few smoke-and-mirrors effects.  BUT, it was always VV's engine, and given the next-gen engine maybe Raven could have done even better.  
  
• Raven has a much bigger shop and much more experience, so it's not an apples-to-apples comparison
  
• Still, Raven didn't miss the mark on some characters.  Black Widow, Ms Marvel, Invisible Woman and more look absolutely terrible in MUA2.  I don't know if it's just the artist that worked on those particular models, because other models look awesome, and overall the game looks great.
  
• Gameplay-wise I still prefer Raven/n-Space's style, but I can appreciate what Vicarious Visions tried to do having now played a bit of the game.  Still, I don't understand at all some of the decisions to drastically skew (they'd call it streamlining) the basic RPG system of XML1/2/MUA.
  
• The DLC this time around for MUA2 is starting off much stronger.  Here's hoping they're smart about the 2nd batch and bring in the really big Marvel characters that weren't featured.  Most people won't be happy if we're talking just making NPCs playable.  That's all well and good, but if you don't have big players like Hawkeye, Ghost Rider, one of the X-Men, etc in that pack too you're looking at upset customers.
  

Long story short Raven wins the fight by a long shot.  Vicarious Visions really had a valiant first effort, but they changed way too much of the core of the game, and now it doesn't feel like MUA to me anymore.  It's still fun, but next time around I'll prefer Raven or n-Space as they stayed true to the original feel.  I'll always love the Raven-style game more.  VV did a pretty good job, but missed the mark by changing so much

[nodoubt_jr]

Oh and about XML3 i hope Raven does it, i love XML2 and from what ive seen of XML1 it was also great. So why change a good thing? Give them XML3 and let them improve on it.

[DJay Saint]

XML1 was great.  I love that game to death.  The only thing I don't like is that you have to start over each time, you can't take characters you've unlocked from a previous play through (or their stats) and use them at the start of the game.  Which means no Psylocke until the end of the game (and by then she is useless because you are fighting mostly nothing but Sentinels and other mental resistant stuff which kinda sucks) and no Emma Frost until about midway through the game as well.  There is also no hard mode and character levels cap out at 45 instead of 99.  But all in all it was a really awesome game and I still replay it from time to time.

I think with the rpg elements of XML2 combined with MUA's next gen graphics and engine improvements (obviously with XML3 they'd be even better), XML3 would be solid.  Raven would make XML3 rock.  As for graphics though, I think it'd be awesome if they had an option in the video settings of the game to turn on/off the cel-shader maps of characters.  Being all you have to do is filter that map, it wouldn't be too hard.

[thetommyboy2002]

See, the thing with sequels is this: no matter what you do, you will piss off someone.
If you keep everything the same, and basically make an expansion pack, so the same engine, gameplay and approach is used, you piss off the people who want you to "fix" problems, to improve the engine and graphics, to push the envelope of gameplay.
But if you do those things you piss off the people who liked the things you "fixed", who hate the new graphics or engine, and who feel the new gameplay has lost what they liked about the "classic" game.
Theres a few things about MUA2 I like. I like that there are no stupid quicktime boss fights. I like being swamped by cannon fodder opponents rather than never seeing more than four foes at a time. I even like the fusions to some extent.
It's hard for me to compare the engine as I have mua on pc and mua2 on 360, so in many ways mua2 looks worse (I can play mua at the same resolution but with lots of antialiasing, so it looks "cleaner" on the pc than the jaggy edged 360 graphics).
And I loathe many of the character redesigns in mua2 (I've said it before and I'll say it again: sorry computer game and film artists, but you do not design better characters than Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko). But many of the robots and backgrounds of MUA2 look very nice. Maybe better than mua, but not massively so, frankly.
Less costumes is Less, not More. Less powers is Less, not More. I expect more choice in a sequel, not half as much.
I loved mua for its wide travel of the Marvel Universe, and seeing so many characters as npcs. Mua2 feels much more limited in terms of locations, and also in terms of the amount of characters as npcs and foes.
I liked the story in mua, and I loathe Secret War with a vengeance. I care little for Civil War, and found the deviation from the Civil war story to be weak and a bit cliched. If you are going to base the game on comics, see that through. Dont deviate away from the crappy weak ending of the story you chose to give us some other equally crappy weak ending. It wasn't a truly awful story in mua2, by videogame standards. But videogame standards are non-existent, so thats damning with faint praise.
So ultimately I guess I'm saying this: Raven is not VV, nor vice versa. Both have made games I've bought and paid for at full price, and enjoyed playing. Some will like one game more than the other. Some will feel one company did a better job than the other.

[Gevth]

I feel like with every step forward VV took, they took 2 backwards.
Upgraded graphics, but cut down levels and alt. costumes.
"Better" story (something a lot of people would agree with, though not me), but lost the tour through the whole Marvel Universe that was the first MUA.
The quick menu is a feature that the game really needed, but at the same time they took away more elements of character costumization.
Adding Iron Fist, Gambit and Songbird to the game, but taking away Moon Knight, Ghost Rider, Dr. Strange and the possibility of not having Penance on your character selection screen.
As for DLC, it depends on whether the new sim-mission are fun or not, because Raven's DLC characters outclass VV's in my opinion (I'd rather have Venom than Carnage, Cyclops than Cable, Hawkeye than Black Panther, and I'll just say (Hulk+Dr. Doom) > Psylocke).

What they're missing is something that keeps players coming back. Maybe some random events in maps, trying to emulate Diablo. Maybe a part where you choose the order you play levels, and depending on that, some aspects of the levels change.
And take the random item collecting as far as they can. That's one of the reasons people still play Diablo, get that last piece of equipment that your character needs to be unstoppable.

[Teancum]

What they're missing is something that keeps players coming back.

That's really what it comes down to for me.  MUA2 next-gen isn't a bad game.  It really isn't.  It's just forgettable once you've beaten it twice.  It's a rent vs buy thing.

[Larcetin]

lol, you really made this thread 
I like both VV and Raven, so I guess I'm out of the discussion here.

and the possibility of not having Penance on your character selection screen.

Just one thing, what do you mean with this?

[kfcrispy]

Just like many first-time games, VV does lack some of the goodies the older games had, but now that they have developed the engine, they can add the extra content. (Look at King of Fighters XIII....)
I do like VV's overhaul of the engine a lot better, even if we won't be able to mod it. No more falling through cracks btwn "tiles" on the ground, etc... i think it's a faster-paced system that preserved the gameplay elements of the earlier games. Next time around, I will be expecting the extra content like costumes, grab-smash, and possibly individual equipment. I also like what they did with powers, even if they didn't let us choose them... each power evolves as you level it up, like in XML1.